Denied both ESA & DLA....

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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Sat May 05, 2012 12:56 pm

Ok, going to be another long update I'm afraid. I sent in the re-application for income based ESA as they requested as I don't have enough contributions for Contribution Based ESA. Received two letters (both the same) this morning stating that income based ESA won't be paid as we have as much or more money coming in than the law says we need to live on!! But the letter is garbled and talks about both contribution based and income based and talks about dates that I have absolutely no idea how they arrived at.

It's probably best if I transpose some of the letter into here as it's reads....

We have looked at your claim again following a recent change.

We cannot pay you Employment and Support Allowance from 27 March 2012.

You are not getting any more income-related Employment and Support Allowance.

We cannot pay you income-related Employment and Support Allowance because you have as much or more money coming in than the law says you need to live on.

We cannot pay you because you have not paid, or been credited with enough National Insurance Contributions.

From 21 September 2012 your Employment and Support Allowance will be £111.45 a week.

This is because of:

a change in money coming in

We have used the tax years endind 5 April 2010 and 5 April 2012 to assess your claim


....lots of gaff about how the money will be paid, and then...

How Employment and Support Allowance has been worked out

The payment of Employment and Support Allowance is based on your National Insurance Contribution records and any additional amount the law says you need to live on.

Living expenses for you and your partner £111.45

Which gives a total income-related amount £111.45

No income will be taken off your Employment and Support Allowance

So your income related enetitlement is £111.45



So this is why I'm totally confused! I was made redundant on 23rd march 2012, so I was claiming from 24th March 2012. I have received absolutely nothing as income since then. My wife is on maternity leave and only receives SMP. Here's a breakdown of all monies coming in to our household...

£128.71 Statutory Maternity Pay
£33.70 Child Benefit
£11.54 Child Tax Credits
£126.92 Housing Benefit

Are Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit, Child Benefit and Child Tax Credits considered as income? I didn't think so, maybe I'm wrong?

The letter jumps from talking about contribution based and income based all over the place, and I don't understand where the 27 March 2012 and 21 September 2012 dates come from either as they don't match up to anything at all! If anything, my wife would be back at work by then so her income would be more!!

If anyone can give any advice on this I would be eternally grateful! I can't phone the DWP until tuesday now, so I'm going to be stressing myself out about this all weekend! I feel like my wife is getting resentful of me because I have contributed absolutely nothing to the household finances for 6 weeks now, and I can't blame her, but what can I do!!
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Sat May 05, 2012 2:20 pm

Been pouring over it all with Google and have worked out that 21 September is exactly 26 weeks after I stopped working, and ESA claims are withheld for 26 weeks when you stop working, but I was made REDUNDANT and was receiving SSP since October 2011.

So, I guess they have made a mistake when it's all been entered into their system and they have me down as leaving work, not being made redundant. I don't recall anything on the re-application form asking why my work ceased tho!
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby FluppyPuffy » Sat May 05, 2012 2:37 pm

It might be worth getting in contact with CAB or other similar organisations in your area. As they understand the benefits system, they should be able to help in working out/explaining what has happened with your claim, as well as help in rectifying whatever cock~up the DWP has made in your case.
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Sat May 05, 2012 2:41 pm

Our CAB has a waiting time for appointments of at least 6 weeks.....we'll be well behind on our rent by then, and our landlords are VERY quick to issue notices as they have been stung badly in the past, which I can't really blame them for!

I'm going to call DWP on monday and have it out with them!

What they dont realise is the effects their mistakes have on people.....I just had a major meltdown and panic attack because of all of this! Not nice!
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby Melbi_UK » Sat May 05, 2012 4:54 pm

Hi Darkclyde
I have no more advise than what has been said above as I have never had any of your problems but I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you during this very stressful time for both you and your pregnant wife, stress isn't going to help you or your wife, not to mention yur unborn children. I just wish there was some way of bringing the governement to justice in the court of law.

I'd challenge any mp or pm to live on what they say we need to live on, they would never manage it!

Keep fighting and keep posting here as I'm quite sure voicing your stress and worry here will help you and seems a lot of people here are in the know how these things work.
xx
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby Adele » Sat May 05, 2012 9:28 pm

hi darkcyde, congratulations on the babies. i seem to have good luck with DLA forms compared to others on here. i highly recommend that you phone up social services adult help desk and ask for an OT assessment and a social worker assessment. the OT will come to your home and assess you for any aids and adaptations you need, simple things like support rails beside the loo, ramps, a hospital style bed can be supplied. if you need a bathroom converting into a wet room, a downstairs loo installed, a through floor lift or a stairlift she can arrange funding through a disabled facilities grant. she can also add weight to your DLA tribuneral by writing a report about your needs.

the social worker will check how you are as a family and can provide direct payments if necessary to pay for help around the home and with personal care. she can also write a report for the tribuneral and to the housing benefit department. she may be able to get the discretionary payments extended. if you ever get the higher rate care component of DLA you are then allowed a spare room for an over night carer. either the social worker or the OT can help you with form filling.

contact the housing benefit department and ask for an urgent visit from a rent officer. if your 3rd bedroom is too small to fit a bed it most likely isn't legally a bedroom. i have a friend who has had discretionary payments paid on his cottage for 4 years as the rent is so high, so please ask them to extend the payments.

if you need somewhere more suitable to live get on the housing list. i applied and submited letters from the pain clinic, 2 OTs, social worker, GP, environmental health etc. it took me 18 months to get a new build housing association bungalow, but i am single. i was put near the top of gold band straight off and could have had a bungalow within 2 months. i wanted to wait for my perfect home though.

when you filled in the DLA form and wrote "i can walk 50 meters in 5 minutes" did you expand that answer to say how often you can do it, how much pain it causes, the furthest distance you can walk, is that with or without walking aids, do you risk falling, what would be the consequences of walking 50 meters would you need to sleep to recover, can you do that only on the flat, do you need someone to supervise or support you? always expand and always repeat yourself. they get funny if you don't tick a box so tick the worst one if necessary but then expand. you can also add notations beside boxes you have ticked. (after receiving my form i was awarded both higher rates in 2 days).

lastly to help your mobility refer yourself to the physio department. they can provide walking aids such as a rollator, walking sticks or crutches. some physio departments can provide manual wheelchairs, where i live it is the social services OT. best wishes, Adele
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Sat May 05, 2012 9:59 pm

Hi Adele

Thank you so much for the detailed response - my boys are 6 months old next week....time has flown!!

I'm managing to cope with the house the way it is....a matter of having to learn how to I guess....a second rail on the stairs would be very helpful, and we do have a walk in shower although it is out of action at the moment waiting for landlord to overhaul it due to leaky tiles - we've put them off due to my health and me not wanting people in the house....pride I guess. To be honest I don't want much - just to be paid what I'm entitled to, to be able to cover my bills....I don't think that's much to ask really is it. However, the information you have given regarding the rent officer and everything is an eye opener.....they don't give this information out willingly do they! Our third bedroom could probably fit a small single bed, but that's about it...no furniture with it, so I think they'll still say its a 3 bedroom. I have applied for discrectionary payments from the council and just waiting for a decision at the moment. I can't understand how they could expect us to be able to move right now, let alone afford to! I'm struggling to find next months rent, let alone a month down and a month deposit on a new place. Plus this is my home - I lost my childhood home to reposesion in the late 80s, I lost my own home two years ago to reposession in 2010 when my business failed in the first double dip recession, I really don't think I could handle having to lose another home I'm confortable in unwillingly.....old people can't be made to move out of 5 bedroom council houses they've had as a family home for years as it's considered against their human rights, but we can be forced to move, no problem!

I completed the ATOS Questionnaire last week, and filled that in after learning from the experiences of the DLA questionnaire. Basically I ran with the rule that if I could do something once, but not again for a few days, then I couldn't do it at all, and went into lengthy descriptions about how it would effect me. It took me days to complete it, and I felt like a fraud because I was saying that I couldn't do x when in fact I could but it would leave me immobile, but I had to look at it from the point of view of the person at the other end.

The DLA person basically wrote off everything I said without even a ATOS medical to refer to....my (very supportive) GP supplied his report, and when I spoke to him about it he said that they have ignored everything he said in his report too!

I saw my Specialist Rheumatologist again last week too, and he is now refering me Occupational Therapy, Physiotherapy and Hydrotherapy....all of which have gone down in the ATOS questionnaire.

I have a strange situation with me regarding medications....when I was 5 years old, I was diagnosed as suffering from Hyperactivity (ADHD as it's now called) and I was then the worst recorded case in the UK. But they didn't understand about it at all, and all they wanted to do was section me. But my mum refused and persevered despite being covered with bruises from me lashing out at her. They opted to medicate me - unfortunately all but one drug is missing from my medical notes, but my mum remembers them having me on sedatives to knock me out at night (the only one on my record, and GP went white when he looked back - apparently the dosage they put me on at 5 years old was the same dosage they gave to a severe adult schitzophrenic patient) and amphetamines to wake me up again in the morning, as well as a ton of others enough to fill two tea saucers twice a day, and I believe a trial version of Ritalin.

The point I'm getting to here is that the amphetamines knocked me out and the sedatives work me up....I was awake all night swinging back and forth on my metal rocking horse singing Rupert the Bear at the top of my voice like I was on speed, and a complete dribbling zombie all day. My mum eventually took matters in her own hands and weaned me off, and apparently it was 6 months of hell....not that I remember any of it!

Now, I'm seeing the same effect again....the Amitripylene does nothing but give me side effects, co-codemol 30/500s make me sleepy, but don't do anything for pain, any pain at all be it toothache or muscle pain, tramadol the same but even more drowsey. My GP says it's rare, but possible to have a system in the body whereby medication compounds don't do or go where they should. All to do with the Pharmacodynamics and Pharmacokinetics of the interraction between the body and the drug compound. Have you ever heard of FM sufferers with the same situation, or anyone at all for that matter?
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby Adele » Sun May 06, 2012 12:06 am

please speak to someone about the size of your small bedroom. at least tell them the measurements over the phone. i'm glad you're being referred to OT etc. the more specialists you have the more 'sick' you look when it comes to benefits. social workers do seem carry a lot of weight so please think about referring yourself.

with regards to pain relief not doing what it should you fill find most of us are the same on here it's pretty classic for fms. when i was in my early 20s i admitted to my GP that tramadol didn't help with the pain it just made me feel stoned and distracted me from the pain. she said that was good enough. local anaesthetic doesn't work for me either.

your childhood sounded scary weird. i suffered from hyperactivity as a child and was then diagnosed with pretty bad bipolar, now undiagnosed. at least i was 20 before i was taking the sort of medication you were on. there must have been much more than ADHD going on with you; do you know if they ever did any brain scans or EEG?

are you wondering if all those meds caused your fibro, because it makes me wonder. a lack of dopamine causes pain and dopamine agonists are used to treat fibro. i am still taking anti-psychotics which are dopamine antagonists. my GP says raising my dopamine levels will make me psychotic. what a choice?

best wishes, Adele
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Sun May 06, 2012 5:03 pm

No, never any scans at all, just Psych assessments, non-invasive testing and medications. This was at the point where they knew very little - shortly after this was when every parent with a difficult child had a hyperactive child as it became any easy label to put on an awkward child, but if you had a hyperactive child, you knew it!

I've often wondered what the actual drugs were that they gave me, and if there had been any long term effects - so much at a young age could quite well cause the body to develop resistances I would say! However, there are a lot of similarities with FMS symptoms and ADHD, so it's difficult to say for sure what I have, and both have no definitive test....it's all a lot of guesswork right now.

My mother was part of the group who lobbyed parliment to have ingredients listed on packages, which gave birth to the world of E numbers which the manufacturers used instead of frightening chemical names that would scare consumers, until the knowledge of E numbers grew and people began to avoid them. At this point they started putting chemical names on instead and I've heard people saying "it's ok, there's no E numbers in it so it's good for them!" at which point I just slap my head!

I think I may try to investigate my medical history and find out if any notes exist from my treatment - it might shed some light on the situation. I would need to start be finding out who was the prominent Hyperactivity researcher in the early 1980s and go from there I would guess - it'll be tough tho I think!
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
darkcyde
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Tue May 08, 2012 9:58 am

Just phoned DWP and they say because I'm claiming Income-related ESA, they take both mine and my wifes income into account - she's in receipt of Statutory Maternity Pay which is about £130 a week, and they deem this too much money - as a couple if she wasn't getting that we would receive £111.45 a week to live on!

Her maternity pay and our housing benefit barely covers rent....what the hell are we supposed to do. I can't work, she doesn't earn enough even full-time to pay for everything!

Can anyone give any advice please??
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
darkcyde
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Tue May 08, 2012 10:17 am

According to my Housing Benefit paperwork, the law says I need £258.83 in their Government Allowances section, but we are only getting £130 a week! I really don't get this!! We have no money, no food, no formula for our boys, and they won't help us at all!

That cliff is looking more and more inviting by the hour!
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby Melbi_UK » Tue May 08, 2012 11:02 am

Do they pay the housing benefit into your account or straight to the landlord?
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby Melbi_UK » Tue May 08, 2012 11:04 am

Sorry I meant to add a link for you. This will work out just what benefits you can claim and how much.

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/

I'd also try and get an appointment with CAB xx
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby darkcyde » Tue May 08, 2012 11:08 am

Its paid to us - thank you for the link, I've done this online form and others many times, and yes it tells you you could get this, this and this but its a different story when you actually apply for it from the government.

Sorry to sound so negative, but I've been living this for months now and it's got to the point where I can't handle it anymore. We are about to go down to the JobCentre with our two screaming hungry babies and stay there until they sort something out.....I can't think of anything else we can do! £111.45 a week is not enough for a fmaily of 4 to live on, paying rent, bills, food, etc. We have no credit cards, loans, we don't even have Sky! Nothing leaves our bank unless its for essential bills!
Diagnosed : ME/FM, CFS,CPS, IBS, ADHD : Medications : Mirtazapine 45mg, Paracetamol 4gram a day, Omeprazole 40mg, Dompperidone 30mg, Morphine (tabs) 120mg, Morphine (liquid) 100mg twice a day
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Re: Denied both ESA & DLA....

Postby Melbi_UK » Tue May 08, 2012 11:29 am

Don't be sorry for being negative, it is very understandable.

The problem with internet sites when it comes to finding out what you can or cannot claim is all wel and good, but like you say, when you try to claim them it is a different story.

There is one site (forum) created by Martin Lewis. Here people who work for the DWP are known to give excellent advise and help people claim what is rightly there's.

I remember when our kids were just babies and my hubby got made redundant, we had a mortgage, no help there. We had no money to buy the milk formula for our new born. We did what you did in the end and went ddown there and stayed until we were listened to. They did say in the end they would post us a giro (those where the days) It took another hour or so to make them understand we needed the money there and then! The babies needed feeding. In the end after much arguing and them saying it isn't in their policy to issue giros by hand, they gave in and gave us one to cash straight away.

Thankfully my hubby gt another job within weeks but he wasn't ill so didn't have the problem you are facing.

Ask them about being on social (I know things are changing) but there must be a different benefit you can claim. Maybe your wife coming off SMP and doing a joint claim for something else?

Anyway, here is the link to Martin Lewis's forum, this link will take you right to the correct sections you will need to ask for advice.

Benefits and Tax Credits: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/for ... .php?f=139

Disabilty and Dosh: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/for ... .php?f=155

Good luck at the JCP and please do let us know how you get on. xx
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