esa support tribunal denied

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esa support tribunal denied

Postby logiebear » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:07 pm

i cant believe whats happened to me i attended my esa support tribunal in july they postponed it for more medical evidence, the court arranged for a doctor from dwp to visit me he was very nice examined me and asked me lots of questions, i received a copy of his report everything i said on esa form he backed me up with, agreed with all the evidence even going so far as stating i had deterioted from last medical i had and i had significant disabilities, could only walk up to20 yard without help, needed help to walk outside etc, i was very relieved with his report.

i attended tribunal on saturday and was quite optimistic about it, the judge first asked me if i claim dla ?? i was there for esa support? so i said that i have just claimed but was turned down she looked a bit shocked and asked me on what grounds i said gp's report, she said thats wrong they should of gone off the last dwp doc medical report that i had just had done so i should photocopy this and send it to dla asking them to look at my claim again, i thanked her but was very confused as i was there for esa support.

well anyway the tribunal started they asked me lots of questions between her and the doctor, they looked through my other atos medicals and she said you have been awarded 15 points 2 times, they asked if my condition has worsened since april, i told them it had, next they told me they could only use evidence up till april of this year when i had asked the decision maker to look at esa support claim again.

now im confused again why did they ask for more evidence and send a doctor out to see me when they said they couldnt use new evidence???? i received my letter today my appeal was refused on the grounds of because no descriptor from schedule 3 applied, mobility eh what???? and in my own evidence my condition has deteriorated since april???? what the hell does this mean?? im ringing my advisor at cab in the morning, but in the meantime does anyone have a clue what just happened to me , im so confused xxx
Last edited by FluppyPuffy on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split into small paragraphs for easier reading.
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby fatalrazkaz » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:50 pm

David bloody Cameron, thats what just happened to you :pull-hair:
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby no1phil » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:02 pm

I would appeal that appeal. I was turned down on monday at the appeal, granted not in as such a bad state as yourself but they were also asking me questions which didn't relate to the date of my esa medical, asking how i got to the tribunal that day etc, which to be fair is not what they are there for so they really should not be asking that at all. I will be appealing this appeal and will not be getting help from cab as i felt they did nothing to help my case. Anyway if i were you i would defo appeal as it sounds like they were concentrating too much on evidence etc which did not relate to why you were there in the first place. It also sounds like they should have used the latest atos dr report which they obviously didn't. I hope you can get this sorted, its complete bull what they are trying to do with us. Also remember that for esa we do not even have to try and prove we can't work as we only have to prove we have limited capacity and although i never asked at my tribunal (dam fybro fog) I would ask them what jobs they see your health qualifies for and have facts to back up their answer.
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby logiebear » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:16 pm

no1phil wrote:I would appeal that appeal. I was turned down on monday at the appeal, granted not in as such a bad state as yourself but they were also asking me questions which didn't relate to the date of my esa medical, asking how i got to the tribunal that day etc, which to be fair is not what they are there for so they really should not be asking that at all. I will be appealing this appeal and will not be getting help from cab as i felt they did nothing to help my case. Anyway if i were you i would defo appeal as it sounds like they were concentrating too much on evidence etc which did not relate to why you were there in the first place. It also sounds like they should have used the latest atos dr report which they obviously didn't. I hope you can get this sorted, its complete bull what they are trying to do with us. Also remember that for esa we do not even have to try and prove we can't work as we only have to prove we have limited capacity and although i never asked at my tribunal (dam fybro fog) I would ask them what jobs they see your health qualifies for and have facts to back up their answer.


thanks phil, i am going to appeal the appeal my esa contributions stopped in april so i have nothing to lose, who do i write to to appeal the tribunal, and what would i say to appeal it in writing, god i need help my brain has turned to mush again but yeah your right about asking them what job they see me doing in the wrag group . x
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby honeypots03 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:47 pm

Hi if they only taking into account up to april and that was denied then and new drs report says you have deteriorated then why not start a new claim based on the drs report who came out to see u.?
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby no1phil » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:36 pm

logiebear wrote:
no1phil wrote:I would appeal that appeal. I was turned down on monday at the appeal, granted not in as such a bad state as yourself but they were also asking me questions which didn't relate to the date of my esa medical, asking how i got to the tribunal that day etc, which to be fair is not what they are there for so they really should not be asking that at all. I will be appealing this appeal and will not be getting help from cab as i felt they did nothing to help my case. Anyway if i were you i would defo appeal as it sounds like they were concentrating too much on evidence etc which did not relate to why you were there in the first place. It also sounds like they should have used the latest atos dr report which they obviously didn't. I hope you can get this sorted, its complete bull what they are trying to do with us. Also remember that for esa we do not even have to try and prove we can't work as we only have to prove we have limited capacity and although i never asked at my tribunal (dam fybro fog) I would ask them what jobs they see your health qualifies for and have facts to back up their answer.


thanks phil, i am going to appeal the appeal my esa contributions stopped in april so i have nothing to lose, who do i write to to appeal the tribunal, and what would i say to appeal it in writing, god i need help my brain has turned to mush again but yeah your right about asking them what job they see me doing in the wrag group . x


Well for me i have to apply in writing to the place where the tribunal took place and request a statement for the reasons for the tribunal decision, then let them know i want to appeal (i assume you get the appeal stuff with the statment). However this must be done 1 month from the date of appeal. The will only take the appeal though if you believe there was an error in law applied however this also includes if they used Atos medical over your own GP and why etc.
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby Graciebaby » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:55 am

Hi,
I was originall placed in the wrag and appealed the decision, as I believe I should be in the support group.
I recently lost my tribunal appeal and have asked for a statement of reasons.
I'm not holding out much hope though that I might get anywhere by fighting the decision.

Just as I lost my appeal, my 365 days of contributions based ESA ran out. I have been advised that if I don't have the stomach for fighting the decision, or if I get nowhere in trying to pursue it, that I should leave it 3 months (so unfortunately that's 3 months without money) and put a fresh application in for contributions based ESA, as I should still have paid enough contributions to qualify.
This means of course that I would have to go through the whole ESA50 form filling in again and also the horrible Atos medical.

I was awarded 15 points last time I was placed in the wrag and have, since then, obtained reports from 3 other consultants regarding my diagnosis, treatment/meds and lack of improvement/recovery. It's no guarantee though that I may be awarded another 365 days in the wrag or support group is it, because the decisions Atos and the DWP make seem so arbitrary.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has left things for 3 months, put in a fresh claim and been awarded a further year of ESA?
I don't seem to be able to find much info on going down this route. I was advised to do this at the jobcentre and I'm wondering if they have given me the correct advice?

I'm sorry for anyone who has to experience this process.
Stress makes this illness worse, it's certainly had a negative effect on my condition and my dealings with the DWP have only been detrimental to my health.

Best of luck to all and take good care :)
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby logiebear » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:12 pm

yes gracibaby i would like to know about the 3months to apply again, have you asked this question on here?

thanks for your kind words its great we have supportive friends on here people who really understand what we are going through,
i hope everything works out for you to, in the words of my hubby dont give up and let them win, fight them girl your entitiled to it.
take care
xxx
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby zappa20 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:35 am

Would be easier to submit another ESA claim in 12 weeks than trying to appeal on a point of law tbh. Another judge has to consider whether there is justification in law for it to go ahead. However in the case of they asked for another medical to be done specifically for this Tribunal and then blatantly ignored it then that might suffice. You'd need legal advice. Might be stressful and costly to ahcieve very little.

Would also depend on what the other medical stated. EG Not being able to walk without help, depends on the help.If it's from sticks or a wheelchair then it counts for WRAG but not necessarily Support Group. Very complicated and I think it's been deliberately set up to make it so.

Also think a lot of people don't understand a medical report is just one medical person's prognosis, another could disagree with it. And Fibro is such a varied and fluctuating condition. Often medical people write very vague general reports, eg MR/MRS x advises he/she can't walk, etc etc, or cmplains he/she experiences pain etc etc which makes it very subjective. Very few medical people will commit to categorically stating information specific to descriptors or someones capability unless backed up by clinical test results. And I think this unfortunately causes people a number of problems.

Next time round you might get a more 'honest' assesor or be able to adjust your form so you're put straight into the Support Group. Keep trying, and always attend your Tribunal it makes a lot of difference if you're not just a faceless name but a real person sitting in front of them.
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Re: esa support tribunal denied

Postby diane1 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:37 am

Hi folks

One thing I was told recently by my solicitor is that if you have medical reports that have been completed by a consultant in say rheumatology then any decision to go against their findings by a dr in occupational medicine is unlawful as they are not specialist in the field, so cannot say a specialist is wrong as they dont have the same knowledge. So get a statement of reasons to see why the decision was made and the qualifications of the board members who made the decision. You can always take this to the ombudsman but this can take a while to process.

In the mean time put in another claim to ESA with up to date medical reports.

Good Luck

:goodluck2:
Does an elephant with fibro fog ever forget ?
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