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The UKFibromyalgia Forums • View topic - upper tribunals help (new here)



upper tribunals help (new here)

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upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby latmaz » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:34 pm

hi i am new here but have found loads of help and info on the site since i was diagnosed. i wonder if anyone has any knowledge of appealing to the upper tribunals. in the last month i have been turned down both for ESA and DLA despite having both IB and DLA for many years.... abit of background

i have fibromyalgia, osteo arthritis, damaged discs and RSI in both arms. i presented supporting letters to the ESA from 2 specialists saying i was not able to work but was still turned down. i have been unable to work since approx 2006 and was on IB for many years. there were many discrepancies in the ATOS assessment which i went into detail on my appeal. i felt badgered at the tribunal and was only asked things like how long i spent at my mothers, what was my specialist exact title, my husband was not allowed to speak even tho i was crying and was told well u "managed to sit here so u must be ok"

re the dla i was awarded both HRM and HRC indefinitely in 2010 after a DWP's drs report 18months prior. in 2012 i had a reassessment and both was removed. the reason giving was that the decision maker did not have full facts and had relied on my self assessment. i proved this untrue as it was made on the basis of the previous report. at the tribunal the DWP man said this was not available but i produced a copy. i felt they were sympathetic but obviously i was wrong

i am in pain all the time, when i walk its painful, when i drive its painful etc . i cannot cut veggies or prepare a meal and cannot use my arms for more than a few minutes without pain. i have had 2 cortisone and 3 steroid injections in the last year alone, along with acupunture both privately and on the NHS but despite all this i have had all benefits removed

has anybody appealed the tribunal to an upper tribunal on points of law of the above and if so how did it go and did u get any outside help for it

many thanks for reading
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby denys » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:34 pm

I'm sure some people have gone to the upper tribunals, get some advice from CAB or DIAL and go for it because it seems unfair to go from higher rate for both to nothing :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: try to get your doc to write a supporting letter. Hope someone else comes along with some better/more advice soon :-D :-D :-D
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby *Lisa* » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:34 pm

:welcome:

I have no experience with tribunals and sorry to hear they have taken all moneys away from you :shock:

I would seek advice from the CAB

Hopefully you'll also get some replies to help you
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby latmaz » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:34 am

thanks both of u. i couldnt see my post in the list which is weird so thought i had lost it lol

will try CAB and DIAL today
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby *Lisa* » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:43 am

Another is welfare rights, not sure if they can help but its worth asking
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby andrew623 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:17 am

Dear Latmaz,

Sorry to hear of your plight. I would write and ask the 1st tier tribunal for a Statement of Reasons as your first port of call.I requested one last year and went like the following: You can change your's accordingly where the x's are:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write in regards to the Tribunal hearing my wife and I recently attended on XXXXXXX 2012 at XXXXXXX Justice Centre. We received the Judge’ decision notice on XXX October 2012. I am writing to kindly request a Statement of Reasons and record of proceedings for the Tribunal’s decision.
In particular, regarding Schedule 2 of the ESA regulations, I would like to kindly request on which evidence and/or law was used in the decision not to award any points within activity number 2 ‘standing and sitting’.
Also in particular, I kindly request the reasons and evidence used to determine that Mrs XXXXXX wasn’t entitled to be placed into the support group (Schedule 3).
May I thank you in advance for dealing with my request.


I would then get in touch with CAB or Welfare Rights as others have suggested (if you haven't already). Also, you mention innacuracies in the ATOS report. Have you challenged this report with ATOS? Not sure how long ago you had the WCA. I'm not sure what advice to give on the DLA. Sounds pretty unfair to me though. I'm in the process of appealing for my wife to the upper tier tribunal regagrding her ESA and my welfare rights advisor advised me that only on a error of law can you appeal to the upper tribunal. This is why you need the statement of reasons. Very best of luck. Keep us updated.
Andrew.
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby latmaz » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:47 am

andrew yes i have applied for the statement of reasons but they are saying this could take months. i did pull ATOS up n my appeal but that seems to have been completely ignored as were 2 medical reports saing i was not fit for work and in fact it would be detrimental if i did.

the DLA refusal fankly astounded me, i have had it for so long and the refusal was based on an untruth which we proved but still it was refused

do let me know how u get on with your wifes appeal to the upper tribunal. lots of luck

thanks everyone else we are trying to get hold of DIAL but no luck so far, we live in a rural area and the only one near us is not answering
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby FluppyPuffy » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:16 pm

There are often smaller local groups that can also offer the similar sort of help and advice that you're looking for. Your local council should have some info about who is in your area, or may even have an advice point/one~stop~shop type of place you could go to. A phone call to them might be an idea to find out just who/what is in your area.

Googlying your area and advice centres can also throw up lots of info as well :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing:


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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby andrew623 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:10 am

Hi Latmaz,

When you say you did pull ATOS up in your appeal, do you mean that you wrote to them to question them on the discrepencies in the report, or did you just mention the discrepencies in your appeal submission? Saying that, even though I mangaed to get ATOS to admit to their flawed report, the 1st tier tribunal didn't really take it into account. My welfare advisor has found a small error of law in that the 1st tier tribunal didn't take into account a self statement of inability to do something that was stated in her initial ESA 50 form. Although we didn't supply medical evidence of this, we are told that it should be taken as neutral and the 1st tier tribunal should have asked us about it at the hearing, something they didn't do. So in short, it may be worth going through the ESA50 form and pick out things which haven't been addressed (at the WCA or Tribunal), just a thought. We're still waiting for the upper tier's decision. Good luck. :goodluck2:
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby latmaz » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:42 am

thankyou for that and sorry for the bad wording. i pulled atos up in my appeal submission as u say

the tribunal didnt take anything into account, not my typical day, what i could or couldnt do, the specialist reports etc. all she asked was how long i spent at my mothers, what was my specialists job title (despite being on headed NHS paper) why i didnt dole out my own tablets and then said well u managed to get here and sit didnt u. that was about it really

i couldnt understand it at all but was too upset to say anything else. there was no question of my ability to use my arms, sit at a desk etc nothing seemed relevant to whether i could work or not

i think i have grounds to appeal but to be honest am so worn down by it all i am not sure whether i will or not

good luck with yours
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby ROSE123 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:45 pm

My claim went to the upper tribunal and it was sent back to the lower tribunal The judge at the upper tribunal found a lot wrong with the comments made by the lower tribunal. My next tribuanl is being held on Monday 29th this month so i am on edge. One or two comments made by the lower tribunal that the upper tribunal commented about are, it should not have made comments about my handbag? the fact that i cant pull my zip up on my boots and muscle wasting in other words the lower tribunal did not look at my case independently. The nurse who assessed me was at fault she said i had no muscle wastage on my hands.My doctor has said to have muscle wastage there could be caused if my hands are totally imobile such as in plaster or starvation, she also said i had poor technique when blowing down a tube to determine my breathing, since then i have been put on oxygen for 16 hours a day, I cant do a walking test to determine if I need oxygen while walking because of the pain I suffer from fibro. So I don't hold much hope with this tribunal
but I am not giving up. :nono:
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby andrew623 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:27 pm

Good to hear your not giving up Rose. If it's re-sent to the 1st Tribunal, aren't you then allowed to submit further evidence/information? A letter from your GP on your muscle wastage and breathing difficulties should help shouldn't they? Unless you already submitted this at the last 1st tier Tribunal.

Good Luck anyway,
Andrew.
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby latmaz » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:15 am

good luck rose. and well done for not giving up

i am still awaiting the statement of reasons to see if i can apply for upper tribunal. how long has it been since your original tribunal hearing?

the thing is they dont seem to realise all this hassle and no money just make us worse, well it has me

lots of luck
x
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby latmaz » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:46 am

well have received my statement of reasons for why i failed my DLA tribunal

basically the fact i have had no OT assessment i cant be as bad as i say, cos i drive occasionally i cant be as bad as i say, because i havent had a back operation i cant be as bad as i say (despite me telling them i was advised against the op as it could make things worse), because i refused the op on my arms i cant be as bad as i say (havent been offered an arm op) etc etc etc.

cant be depressed cos i am not taking the meds for them and have no mental health referral - i was trying to get used to gabapentin hence not taking them and because i havent insisted dr investigate why i fall i cant be so bad - umm i know why i fall so does the dr

there are lots of we can only infer and from this we assume comments etc etc

really and truly dont know where to go from here but if anyone can suggest anything would appreciate input

thanks
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Re: upper tribunals help (new here)

Postby FluppyPuffy » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:22 pm

Go thru your Statement Of Reasons and highlight all the areas where fairy tales and fantasies have been written and made some notes about why they are exactly that and what is the real story, and add anything to it that you think will help support your case.

I know it has already been mentioned, but trying to get some help with your appeal would be a good move.


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