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The UKFibromyalgia Forums • View topic - Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.



Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

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Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby HelpingHand » Thu May 16, 2013 1:08 am

Hello,

I've seen quite a few questions about what to expect at a Tribunal and thought a little guide might prove helpful to answer some of the basics. Though things may vary slightly depending on where you are in the country, it all follows a very similar formula. I hope this helps. Please note this isn't a guide on the appeal process and what to say and what not to say or how to fill in an appeal, it's just what to expect with he Tribunal hearing itself and the general procedure on the day. I will do my best to update it as further questions are asked.

1. Introduction (Pre-Hearing)
The SSCSA Tribunal (Social Security and Child Support Appeals) is part of HMCTS (Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service). The Tribunal deals with appeals for pretty much every benefit from Jobseekers Allowance, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit, Social Fund Payments to the ones you will find most talked about on this forum, ESA and DLA. As you can imagine, that is a lot of appeals. The SSCSA Tribunal has at any one time in excess of 250,000 live appeals from the latest statistics available. This does result in a long wait for your Tribunal date and although it may feel excessive I'm sure it can be appreciated that it is a lot to deal with and, as with most government departments, it most likely does not have the sufficient funding and resources to process them any quicker. Patience is the best policy. The Tribunal is an independent body and has no dealings with the DWP other than receiving the appeal papers. They have no obligation to the DWP in the same way as they have no obligation to you as the Appellant. They take a fresh and independent look at the appeal.

They will give you a choice as to whether you attend your hearing or whether they can deal with it on the papers (i.e. your original claim form, appeal form and any assessment). Please note, they give you this choice as they have no legal power to make you attend a Tribunal, however it is always in your best interest to attend a Tribunal in person. The Tribunal panel will find it much easier having you in front of them rather than having to go off the papers alone.

When you finally get your hearing date, be sure to read the letter very carefully for the venue, time and date. Be sure to make a note of it as it is not an appointment that can be easily arranged; don't expect to be able to ring up and say "I can't make that time, but I can do the day after" as with 250,000 appeals on going, the dates fill up very quickly. Also check the additional notes that come with it. It does detail the expenses policy and some of the expenses have to be approved 14 days before your hearing date. If you forget to do this, then you may miss your chance to claim back any travel expenses. You also need to get any further evidence you want to rely upon into the Tribunal 7 days before your hearing date, however, due to the large amount of work the administration has to get through, the sooner you can get your evidence in before your hearing date, the better. Don't feel you have to wait for a hearing date to send in any additional information.

2. The Tribunal Venue
There are a lot of Tribunal Venues across the country, approximately 152, and the list can be . They are split into 7 administrative areas for ease. The venues can range from purpose built Hearing Centres to Office Buildings to Magistrates Courts. Please be absolutely reassured that if your hearing is in a Magistrates Court, you are not going to be heard by Magistrates, its simply because the courts have empty rooms and the SSCSA Tribunals need as many rooms as they can get their hands on to try and hear as many appeals as possible. While the Tribunal is still a court of law, it is not as formal as a normal court and you are not on trial. Although it sounds easy to say, try and relax as much as possible.

Try to aim to arrive at the venue 10-15 minutes before your appointment. This can compensate for any unexpected delays. If you are more than 10-15 minutes late, the Tribunal does have the power to start and complete hearing without you in your absence whether you have informed them you are going to be late or not. While they will try and be as accommodating as possible, be aware that you are not the only hearing they are due to have that day and if your hearing starts late that means any hearing after yours will be put back. It is in your interests to get there on time!

When you arrive at the venue you will be more than likely greeted by a security guard. You may have to empty your pockets and allow any bags to be searched. They also have a "wand" or a walkthrough metal detector. If you refuse to submit to a search they do have the right to refuse entry to the building, so don't take anything with you that could be a problem (not that you would!). Please be aware that small pocket knives or keyring swiss army knives can be confiscated so if you have any of these, innocently, of course, then try to remember to detach them.

It is important to take your hearing letter with you. The Security Officers should point you in the right direction of where you need to be. As mentioned, every venue is different so it is hard to be more specific than that as to where you need to go in each venue.

3(a). In All Types of Tribunal - The Start
Upon arrival, a Tribunal Clerk will see you as soon as they possibly can. Be mindful that they are sitting in hearings throughout the day, and so may not be able to see you as soon as you get there. They will take you through the process and give an explanation of what you can expect. They will also check to see whether you have received the appeal papers (the DWP should have sent them to you a month, if not more, before your hearing date and they contain your appeal and any medical assessment). They should inform you of who the Tribunal panel members are, but each clerk is different and will do their introductions slightly different so don't worry if they haven't said something I have mentioned. The Tribunal clerk is the clerk to the panel members and deals with the administrative side of things. They are usually nice people (though that's not a guarantee!!) with a lot of experience in dealing with very nervous and stressed people and they will do their best to put you at ease. If you have any issue or problem let them know, no matter how embarrassing it may be. They are very experienced and have heard during hearings everything under the sun from listening to people discuss their incontinence to mental health issues - they aren't there to judge or make you feel bad, they are there to help as best as they can.

When the Tribunal is ready to hear your case, the Clerk will come and fetch you from the waiting area and take you into the Tribunal room.

The Judge will do the introductions and will be taking a written note throughout the hearing (called a record of proceedings) so be mindful to speak at a pace where everything can be noted down. This is in your interests as you want to make sure that the Tribunal are taking in everything. When you are nervous, it is very easy to speak quickly or just say things as they come into your mind without thinking about whether the Judge is keeping up, so do not be offended if the Judge asks you to slow down or repeat something, it is only for your benefit.

The clerk will be in the hearing room as well, but it is not unusual for them to keep leaving and coming back. This is because they have other duties and paperwork to do and also they have to interview other Appellants, like you, who have come for hearings after yours. Try not to be distracted as it isn't because they are bored of listening to you, it's just the nature of their job!

3(b). One Panel Member Tribunals - LQPM
An LQPM is a legally qualified panel member. These Tribunals are made up of one Tribunal Judge from the legal profession. They decide appeals that only fixate on issues of law. For example a decision not to award or to sanction Jobseekers Allowance, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are types of appeals that will go before a judge sitting alone. There are occasions where Employment and Support Allowance appeals go before a Tribunal Judge sitting alone. This is when there is only a legal point in issue. For example, if ESA (WRAG) has been awarded and you didn't attend a work related activity and they sanctioned your benefit, this type of appeal would go before a judge sitting alone. This is because there is no medical point in issue - it is agreed you deserved to be on the benefit, so there is no doctor required to assess that, it's simply a legal point in issue on whether a sanction was correct. These types of appeal don't tend to be common on these forums.

3(c). Two Panel Member Tribunals - LQPM and MQPM
This type of panel is used for ESA hearings, where you are appealing a decision to not put you on ESA or a decision not to be placed in the support group. An MQPM is a medically qualified panel member. These Tribunals are made up of two Tribunal members, the Tribunal Judge from the legal profession (LQPM) and an MQPM, almost always will have "Dr." in front of their names. Most tend to be GPs but some are consultant surgeons (and in which case will have Mr./Mrs./Ms. rather than Dr. in front of their name - so don't panic if you cant see a Dr. on their name plates in the room!) Either way, every MQPM is qualified to be on the panel whether or not they are a GP and have extensive medical knowledge, more so, it could be argued, than the Atos assessors. The Judge will have a few introductory questions and the Doctor will then take the lead with most of the questioning. You, and anyone else you have brought with you, should have an opportunity to say anything you like (related to the hearing of course) at the end. So if you think they haven't covered a certain area of your condition, then is your chance to speak up.

3(d). Three Panel Member Tribunals - LQPM, MQPM and DQPM
This type of panel is used for DLA and AA hearings, AA being Attendance Allowance, where you are appealing a decision to not put you on a certain rate (or any rate) of either component of DLA/AA. A DQPM is a disability qualified panel member. Much like in ESA Tribunals, the judge will do the introductions. They will then hand over to the Doctor who will focus mainly on mobility. Once the doctor is done, the judge may have some follow up questions before handing over to the DQPM. The DQPM will focus mainly on the care side of things. Once the DQPM is done, the judge may have some more follow up questions and, like in ESA hearings, will give you an opportunity to say anything else you feel may have been missed.

3(e). In All Types of Tribunal - The End
Once the Tribunal has finished, one of two things can happen. The first option is that the Judge will either ask you (and anyone else with you) to wait outside while they consider the decision. The clerk will type their decision and ask you to come back in. The Judge will explain their decision and what happens next, and there will be a paper copy available for you to take with you along with some guidance notes. The second option is that they will inform you that the hearing is over and that they will be sending their decision in the post. They usually do this when they feel it may take some time to reach a decision or if they are running behind schedule and need to make up time. Don't feel like they are avoiding giving you bad news; it is just dependent on how things go on the day. When the decision is sent to you in the post it will be with you within 48 hours depending on how good Royal Mail is feeling that week.

4. After The Hearing
No matter what the outcome, good or bad, the Tribunal sends a copy of the decision to the DWP automatically so you don't have to. It is important you retain your copy of the decision in case you want to seek further advice or if there are any issues with the DWP. As far as the Tribunal is concerned, that is the extent of their involvement. They are there to decide your appeal and then once they have, it is down to the DWP to get in touch with you and sort things out from then on.

If you are not happy with the Tribunal's decision there is an opportunity to take it to a further appeal to the Upper Tribunal, but there are set steps to this and you can only appeal to the Upper Tribunal if you think the First-Tier Tribunal have made an error of law. The steps to do this are listed within the guidance notes that go with your decision notice. It is best to see someone at the CAB or some other free advice service and they can assist as it is a far more technical Tribunal and will require a bit more preparation and input on your part.

5. Tips
Try to remember that all staff at the Tribunal, including the clerks, are independent from the DWP. The effect this has is that they cannot give you advice on what benefits you should claim or what the DWP will be expecting you to do next. They have to be seen as fair and independent, so they cannot give you advice in the same way they cannot give the DWP advice. If you ask your appeal and ask "What benefit should I claim now then that this one is being taken away?" or "Does my money stop?" or "When can I expect the DWP to pay me the money they owe me now that I've been successful", don't be shocked if the answer is "Sorry we can't advise you, take your notice to the Job Centre or CAB".

Be as forthcoming as possible with your answers, and try not to be embarrassed. It's easy to feel a bit shy when answering very personal questions, especially if there are up to four strangers in the room, but the Tribunal Panel and Clerk has heard everything and more all before. They can hold around 10 hearings per room a day, they won't remember you from Adam when you leave, and they know you aren't the only one going through the issues that you may have.

There is water provided in every room along with tissues - they aren't trying to tempt fate with the tissues, but it can be an emotional rollercoaster. Don't be afraid to cry, they will let you take it at your own pace.

The Tribunal panel can only take into account how you were at the time the original decision was made that you are appealing against. Due to the amount of time it takes to get a hearing date this can sometimes be up to a year before your Tribunal hearing. Try your best to remember, but be honest if you can't. This works in both ways though. If you are better than you were at your original assessment, although they will be glad you are better they will want to know about when you were worse and vice versa. The reason they have to do this is because they have to look at what the original decision maker reasonably knew about you at that time. The decision maker doesn't make a decision based on how you might be when you go to your Tribunal, so that's why the Tribunal has to look back. It's not something that makes the Tribunal Panel's job easier, but it's how the law is and although they don't make the law they do have to follow it.



---------------------------------

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like. I will do my best to answer them as objectively as possible. Again, this is just a "What happens when I go to the hearing?" kind of guide, rather than "Should I say this? Should I bring that?" kind of guide. I really do hope it helps in some way!
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby Tantalus » Thu May 16, 2013 7:51 am

Wow! You cannot realise how helpful and apt your post is! My tribunal is today and prior to reading this I was panicking so much! Thank you very much for posting this :-)
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby FluppyPuffy » Thu May 16, 2013 10:31 am

Thank you very much for taking the time to do this, it will be extremely helpful for many who are finding themselves having to go thru the process.

I've stickied it to the board so it will be up near the top all the time rather than dropping down in amongst all the cobwebs and dust bunnies :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing:


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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby Tantalus » Mon May 20, 2013 2:59 pm

Well, I had my tribunal on Thursday and it was one of the most horrific experiences of my life but I won't go into details, they said they would be sending a letter out in the post that day with their decision but I have yet to receive anything, anyone know when I can expect to get the letter? I haven't had a wink of sleep since Thursday :-(
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby Woodentop » Mon May 20, 2013 9:39 pm

The guide is certainly useful. I have my ESA tribunal this week after waiting 12 months and it's good to get some idea of what to expect. But I do wonder how independent the tribunal really is. Right at the back of my appeal papers the DWP have put that they ' respectfully request ' that the tribunal find me fit for work! This seems to me that they are trying to influence the panel and I wonder how this kind of statement can be allowed and indeed, if it may even be against the law. If this is down in black and white, right in front of them, how can they ignore it? :-x
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby HelpingHand » Tue May 21, 2013 5:33 pm

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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby Woodentop » Wed May 22, 2013 11:51 am

Thanks HelpingHand - the hour is almost upon me!! Lots of deep breathing and meditation going on here :-?
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby linda3719 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:35 pm

Thanks for that - as usual this site is so good at giving advice - I have my tribunal this Friday - 30th august - I am so
nervous, but at end of the day can only answer the questions, and try to explain how fm has effected me and my everyday
living.

Just hope the panel are understanding and also that I get their decision on the day! All of this waiting around drives you
nuts!

Anyway thanks again, and good luck to everybody who has to go through this process!!

Linda x x :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby *Lisa* » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:16 pm

:goodluck2: :goodluck2: Linda! lets us know how you get on :fingerscrossed:
As a Public Moderator & Admin of this forum my opinions/views expressed are personal and are no more valid than those of other members and not necessarily those of UKFibromyalgia...Lisa
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby FluppyPuffy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:29 pm

:goodluck2: :goodluck2: :goodluck2: Linda :fingerscrossed: :fingerscrossed: :fingerscrossed: Hope they give you the right decision that makes you :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing:


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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby denys » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:17 pm

:fingerscrossed: :fingerscrossed: and :goodluck2: :goodluck2:
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby linda3719 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:21 pm

Had my appeal today - omg was I nervous!!! the panel were very nice tho, and the clerk was too.

And to my surprise - I won :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

They said about back pay? does anybody know about this please? I have been receiving basic esa at 71.00
does this mean I shall get more, and if so when from?

I am just so relieved - thanks so much for this forum and your good wishes

xxxxx Linda xxxx :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby FluppyPuffy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:37 pm

:woot: :woot: :woot: Fab news for you Linda :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing: :bear-dancing:

Got a very a foggy head at the moment that is :hit1: :hit1: :hit1: :hit1: , so apologies if I get this a bit jumbled up. For ESA claims, the first 13/14 weeks are paid at the assessment rate, which is what you have been receiving, and is also what is paid while you're going thru the appeals system. With you winning your appeal, I think your money should be backdated to this week 13/14 period and will mean that you will get the difference between the assessment rate and the full ESA rate paid back to you.

It can take a while for this to come thru due to DWP not knowing which department is doing what at any time :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: There have been previous mentions of it taking a month to 6 weeks :shock: :shock: :shock: I think someone mentioned that if you ring them to confirm some details that they normally write and ask you for, it can speed things up a certain degree, but I'm not 100% on that :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:


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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby linda3719 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:42 pm

Ah thank you :lol: :lol: I still cannot believe it all over - for now anyrate.

The clerk at the tribunal did say to me to call dwp in two weeks if I had not heard anything, so will do that.

Take care and thanks again for all the good advice,

Linda x x x x x :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Tribunals - What to expect on the day of your hearing.

Postby denys » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:34 pm

Brilliant news Linda :-D :-D :-D :-D
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