Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby Iceskatemum » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:16 pm

Oh Felinefine I wish I had seen this earlier but I hope your phased return goes well for you. Like fibro lu has suggested make a brief diary of all the times you were there , what you did , how you felt etc especially if RA haven't been put in place)

Before IHR I worked for a devolved government department and when I first came off work I assumed all that needed to be done was being done in the back ground , how wrong could I be. Like you my line manager didn't do what he was supposed to do and HR didn't know I was off on long term sick . I was the one that eventually told them as like you I had a date I thought I would go on half pay....... as it turned out once I told them I was off all H**l broke loose as my company pay ,plus SSP sick pay was all over the place and like you I owed them monies .

First of all ask HR for a break down of when your pay was to go on to half pay and the reason for the date being earlier that you expected.
Like LynnyG said previous sick leave might have been taken into consideration ( for me we had a rolling 2 year basis for sick pay ie all your sick in the last 2 years was reviewed and this was added to your current element of sick absence to give the start date after 6months on full pay . So if you had 4 weeks sick in the last 2 years your sick pay would revert to half pay after 22 weeks rather than the 26 you might have expected.)


I was able to then discuss and arrange that any monies I owed would be taken out over a two year period once I returned to full time working . Check your terms and conditions for the length of time you can pay the monies back in . ( HR will no doubt be asking for it much earlier but stick to your guns and go for as long as possible. )

Next ask for a copy of the terms of your return to work including the reasonable adjustments that have been stated will be made for you and any timescales for the deployment of the RA that might have been made . If during your return to work you feel your health and circumstances mean that other resonable adjustment need to be made, contact HR asap to discuss them and again agree a time scale ) If the timescales are not met then I would take a grivance asap if only to get them to realise that you are serious about all of this.

As someone who has been through this gross incompetence as well and who got very stressed I would suggest that you try and let it roll over you and try not to get too stressed about it all , your health and well being come first .

I would look for help with finance such as council tax rebate and or housing benefit or working tax credit , child credit ASAP

*** Again check your terms & conditions as not sure about you but when I was on phased return the time I spent in work was calculated as fulL pay but the time I didn't work was seen as still being sick and so was paid at my sick rate pay which by then was half pay . You might have something similar so could be on a lower rate of pay for a while until your return to work full time .

Good luck and let me know if Ican be of any other help .


Just to give you an insight as to how incompetant my HR department are I was forced to retire on IHR in September ( all paper work signed and sealed in July ) and as such was in receipt of a pension from October. However my HR still have me on the pay roll and are paying me a special rate of pay that is less again than half pay . Even though I informed them in October of thier mistake it has still been sent Nov and December. This has meant that because I receive pension , half pay and ESA the tax folk have slapped a 40% tax code on me , believe me I am no were near such a tax scale but was told it was a precausion by the tax office as Its better for them if they get the tax and pay you back in a rebate than not get enough tax and have to run after you for it

I emailed a very strong letter to the senior manager of the pay roll section when I saw the December payment had been received and have been informed that I need to run after my old line manager and get him to sign some form or other !! I have told them that will not be happening as I am not an employee and they needed to do it themselves , lets hope it is sorted soon or a letter to my MP etc might be in order .

One ray of good news The guy from the tax office was lovely and arranged a new tax code on the basis of my phone call so that at least means I should be getting what I was expecting from my pension in next months pay .



Good luck adn let us know how things go . XX
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby felinefine » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:55 am

Iceskatemum wrote:Oh Felinefine I wish I had seen this earlier but I hope your phased return goes well for you. Like fibro lu has suggested make a brief diary of all the times you were there , what you did , how you felt etc especially if RA haven't been put in place)

Before IHR I worked for a devolved government department and when I first came off work I assumed all that needed to be done was being done in the back ground , how wrong could I be. Like you my line manager didn't do what he was supposed to do and HR didn't know I was off on long term sick . I was the one that eventually told them as like you I had a date I thought I would go on half pay....... as it turned out once I told them I was off all H**l broke loose as my company pay ,plus SSP sick pay was all over the place and like you I owed them monies .

First of all ask HR for a break down of when your pay was to go on to half pay and the reason for the date being earlier that you expected.
Like LynnyG said previous sick leave might have been taken into consideration ( for me we had a rolling 2 year basis for sick pay ie all your sick in the last 2 years was reviewed and this was added to your current element of sick absence to give the start date after 6months on full pay . So if you had 4 weeks sick in the last 2 years your sick pay would revert to half pay after 22 weeks rather than the 26 you might have expected.)


I was able to then discuss and arrange that any monies I owed would be taken out over a two year period once I returned to full time working . Check your terms and conditions for the length of time you can pay the monies back in . ( HR will no doubt be asking for it much earlier but stick to your guns and go for as long as possible. )

Next ask for a copy of the terms of your return to work including the reasonable adjustments that have been stated will be made for you and any timescales for the deployment of the RA that might have been made . If during your return to work you feel your health and circumstances mean that other resonable adjustment need to be made, contact HR asap to discuss them and again agree a time scale ) If the timescales are not met then I would take a grivance asap if only to get them to realise that you are serious about all of this.

As someone who has been through this gross incompetence as well and who got very stressed I would suggest that you try and let it roll over you and try not to get too stressed about it all , your health and well being come first .

I would look for help with finance such as council tax rebate and or housing benefit or working tax credit , child credit ASAP

*** Again check your terms & conditions as not sure about you but when I was on phased return the time I spent in work was calculated as fulL pay but the time I didn't work was seen as still being sick and so was paid at my sick rate pay which by then was half pay . You might have something similar so could be on a lower rate of pay for a while until your return to work full time .

Good luck and let me know if Ican be of any other help .


Just to give you an insight as to how incompetant my HR department are I was forced to retire on IHR in September ( all paper work signed and sealed in July ) and as such was in receipt of a pension from October. However my HR still have me on the pay roll and are paying me a special rate of pay that is less again than half pay . Even though I informed them in October of thier mistake it has still been sent Nov and December. This has meant that because I receive pension , half pay and ESA the tax folk have slapped a 40% tax code on me , believe me I am no were near such a tax scale but was told it was a precausion by the tax office as Its better for them if they get the tax and pay you back in a rebate than not get enough tax and have to run after you for it

I emailed a very strong letter to the senior manager of the pay roll section when I saw the December payment had been received and have been informed that I need to run after my old line manager and get him to sign some form or other !! I have told them that will not be happening as I am not an employee and they needed to do it themselves , lets hope it is sorted soon or a letter to my MP etc might be in order .

One ray of good news The guy from the tax office was lovely and arranged a new tax code on the basis of my phone call so that at least means I should be getting what I was expecting from my pension in next months pay .



Good luck adn let us know how things go . XX


Thanl you so much for a detailed message, it beggars belief how rubbish they can be! Especially as its social care and adult safeguarding.....They have caused me so much stress. I will not go back to work full time until the RA are made, my Manager failed me early last year, and then all the way through my time off. I am waiting for an outcome letter from the last meeting and will fight it if its not right. It should state all the sick periods etc, the last one didn't. I will also complain about the mess up with salary and request if I pay it back at all that its over a long period of time.

I have already noticed errors made in my absence but especially since my stroke I must, must not get stressed another one may kill me.

Since Thurs I have been really low, cry as soon as I'm on my own, and in much pain, hands still in a massive flare up, That's why I haven't been here much xxx
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby fibro-lu » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:04 pm

hope you will be better soon

as far as I remember, my former employer paid me much longer on full pay than the "official" half year
might be because I was on 3 (failed) phased returns???
anyway
your employer (be it HR or Line manager or who ever) made a mistake, not you and you are not working for a small family business on the verge of bankruptcy,

how dare to ask you to pay anything back!!! I think employers might even have the lawful obligation to inform you in time about moving you on half pay, don't give them anything back and don't agree nor sign anything regards that

someone messed up and wants to cover his/her back - not your problem
and no employer has to cut your wages, if they wanted to they could pay you full pay as long as for ever

have a good start this week
all the best :cow-wave: Lu
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby Iceskatemum » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:19 pm

Fibro-lu I guess when an employer goes over to half pay or no pay depends on your terms & conditions of employment . In my case it was well known that Half pay was after 6 months on full pay, what was less well know was the fact that the decision was made on a rolling 2 year basis .

As for paying back any over payment again that was covered in my contract , my employer could have gone and taken it in bigger lumps but by discussing my financial comittments etc I was able to get that I didn't start paying it back until I was on full time pay.

I was often amazed at the incompetance of the folk who hold the HR contract for my last employer , if I or a member of my team had made so many on the job mistakes there would have been serious outcomes but the HR folk in my opinion & based on my interactions just don't seem to learn from thier mistakes . Maybe thier handling of my case is not indicative of thier overall work .....

Felinefine, hope your phased return is working well for you , going back to work after a period of sick leave is very daunting so don't be surprised if you have times when it all seems too much. make a note of it and talk to your line manager, see if times when you are in a dip is linked to a particular piece of work or activity. If so then perhaps your line manager could review what you are doing over the next wee while, may be it was a case of too much too soon.

Hope things going well .

ISM
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby felinefine » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:21 am

Thanks for your input Iceskatemum :)

2nd day back, my manager was out the whole time so couldn't speak to him, had no notification of a non to one and I didn't have a back to work meeting. It was possibly in the terms and conditions about the half pay and rolling year but h had failed to quote my sickness periods on the outcome letter he sent ( the policy says he should) the HR woman said ' I should act like an adult and should have phoned in' Grrrrrrrrrr. I told her the remark was offensive and if the policy was adhered to I wouldn't need to.

Next problem is when I am back in on Thursday its for 4 hours, I haven't had any indication of the specialist chair and desk being delivered. Next Monday I should do 7 hour day. I hurt after the 4 hours. I am going to say I am not willing to do the 7 hours until the equipment has been put in place, that will not be received well but I'm beyond caring now.

Also I have got 32 days leave left to take before the start of April, theres only 50 working days til then. I can carry only 5 days over I have been told. Surely I will not lose these if I'm told I can't have that much time off? Has anyone else dealt with this problem?

thanks all xx
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby whoami » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:49 am

felinefine....if you can't do the 7 hours then don't do it. If you hurt after 4 hours you can't be expected to do 7, with or without the new furniture. You also need to get those extra days you have to deal with sorted out. Look after yourself.
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby felinefine » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:34 pm

I had a quick meeting today with my Manager, I was an hour later to get there today as a bad day and couldn't stop crying when I got up It has been agreed that I will do 3 days next week of 4 hours with a half hour break. My mind is a fog, I am already being asked about case work and I have realised how messed up my head is, not sure if that's the FM or the stroke I had.

PAin so bad today now and feeling so low, I might just take a dose of morphine to shut the world out :(

x
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby Iceskatemum » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:19 pm

Oh FF I can real understand your problems , you are in a situation I was in a few years ago. You really shouldn't be back at work as you are not fit to do so but circumstances dictate that if you want to keep your job you must follow the rules and go back.
I'm sending you soft hugs :hugs: along with the ones others have no doubt sent :grouphug: just to let you know that there are peoople on here who understand your problems and also understand how drugs can make you feel better for a while but that it won't take the whole problem away. Hang in there it will hopefully get better.

First of all lets see how we can help with regard your phased return. ;-)

Try not to do 2 days back to back so if in on a Monday , next day see if it can be a Wed and then a Friday . This gives you a little bit of recovery time inbetween shifts. MAke it clear when you arrive that you need your break so don't be shy about telling folk up front when you are going to be taking it . That way they will not be surprised when you leave for your break and hopefully mean you don't get bogged down in stuff that stops you getting a break at a meaningful time . In between your "big" break take little breaks just to stretch and get away from teh computer if you are desk bound. its amazing how poeple don't question you if you have a file in your hand and are walking around the office. :lol:

HAve you had your return to work interview ,, if not try and arrange it asap as it is important that you do so as that is the forum in which you can put on paper how your Phased return is best managed . Plus hopefully you will have a return to work line from your GP that states the Reasonable Adjustments (RA) you might need to allow you to return to work .

Also Have you been to your company OCc health advisor, it might be good to see them as they can carry a lot of weight as far as RA are concerned or contact some of the disability advisor at the Job centre or local charities for further advice.

Case wise take it slowly and make plenty of notes ( they don't need to be legible to others just something that helps you remember key points ) If you are in a meeting sit near the main speaker that way you don't get distracted by those around you , again take notes and if necessary go over them after the meeting so you understand what was said and what is expected. Ask for copies of handouts or spekers notes if necessary IF there are problems talk to your lien manager straight away

Good luck let us know how you get on .
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby FluppyPuffy » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:11 pm

It's been a long time since I was in a work environment, so very little help from me I'm afraid :( :( :( The only other little nugget I can think to add to the fantastic advice from ISM is to see about the possibility of recording any meetings, that way you'd be able to play back any bits as many times as needed to help you with getting all the info from it that you need.
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby Iceskatemum » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:55 pm

Good idea about recording meetings FP it might work well if there are only a few people (say your boss & you) but if there are a number of people I would imagine it might get very complicated. There are bound to be some who wouldn't agree to being recorded or they would want assurances about who would hear the tapes , were they would be stored, when they would be destroyed etc. I think people are very hesitant about having thier words played back at them . An old style dictaphone that no one else could see might be the best bet.....and of course just go ahead and do it rather than ask . As someone once said to me it easier to ask forgiveness then permission :lol:

I will of course deny everything if it all goes pear shaped :lol: :lol:
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby felinefine » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:50 pm

I feel so lucky I have joined this forum as your support overwhelms me. I spoke to a family member today who is grat at employment stuff, he is going to write something up that I can use so it doesn't appear to be personalised towards my manager (he has made lots of mistakes) I need to make it formal regarding the issues I have had with pay and access to work delays.

I will not go back to full hours until the adjustments are in place, my GP did put on the fit for work cert that they needed to be done and the phased return.

It has been agreed to use a Dictaphone if I need to sit in meetings.

My other issue is parking in the multi-storey car park, the spaces are too small for my to be able access my car easily. Also recently a woman was followed into the car park and challenged ( I have had to walk passed people using drugs before) I have stated that due to my mobility and vulnerability due to that I want a space in the outside carpark next to the building, they did this for a wheelchair user at another building the workplace use. My car is essential for my job as I use it to complete visits and I'm paid essential car user allowance so they cannot dispute this. They said I need to get a blue badge but my GP has said I'm not 'bad' enough.

Thanks again xx
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby Iceskatemum » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:14 am

Great to hear that there are some positive moves afoot and good idea about getting someone else onboard to write/ review any letters etc. I was always really bad at those sort of things , used to get all worked up and get really personal ...not a good move.

While you GP might say you are not bad enough for a blue badge I would try and apply for one anyway , possibly try and talk to someone else in the practice about it . its not a big form like some of the benefit forms but getting the badge does make such a difference . There is a lot of talk about FM & ME patients having post exercise malaise .....increased tiredness after doing something so you could possibly angle your chat to your GP in those sort of terms . That although you might be able to walk the distance , it is not easily repeatable and to do it a couple of times a day should you be out of the office for part of it just adds to your fatigue.

Alternatively if your work supply the car park space they have responsibility for your safe entrance and exit from it. If due to your mobility difficulties you feel vunerable then your work should take this into consideration when reviewing your RA. This was one thing my ex employer was eventually very good about although I did have to shout long and hard.

Like you I was an essential user and the work car park was some distance away , it also had very large industrial gates that I needed to open and close quite quickly so that others not meant to be there didn't enter the car park. There had been examples of folk sneeking in when someone was parking a car and either breaking into parked cars or waiting and stealing one when the gates were opened again!

Based on this I explained that I felt vunerable and it added to my fatigue etc and so I was able to use one of the bosses/visitor spaces nearer the office. As the saying goes if you don't ask you'll never get!

Good luck and hope you keeping not too bad given everything
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby robbiecramp » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:38 pm

Thank you for the good luck, after 6 months my terms and conditions state half pay but I thought it would be in January not back in November and they failed to notify me. They have made mistake after mistake. As we all know stress on top of the pain is no good for any off us. All the way through they have said I have a mental health issue too!!! the only thing that is causing my upset is their lack of support at a difficult time. The IRONIC thing is that I work for Social Care ( Adult Safeguard
ing)

I find this horrific that your being treated like this but I am a Support Worker for a private healthcare company and deal a lot with Social care Services as I am transitioning two clients to live in Supported Living and have been told by my boss who is actually a really nice lady that I have to do what the client wants and if I can't I have to resign which I find disgusting as does my GP as was only diagnosed on 15/01/2014 after a terrible time at work and basically muddled through pain until it got to the heights of not being able to take anymore.

I only get SSP but have never been told its a mental health issue that's what I find horrific that they have mentioned it you would think that working for a Council in Adult Social Care they would have a sympathetic nature it all comes down to money.

That's what my boss has said not in so many words in 'we can't afford to lose these contracts and I am not here to cover your shifts or any of your colleagues cause you are having a bad time' so me being pointed out when I come back if it is possible I shall not be covering anybody else's shift as it is not my responsibility as I think have covered enough. get's a bit silly when the overtime is more than contracted hours and then they have the nerve to say that.

I really hope you get sorted out at work and just say can you clarify it's 6 months full pay 3 months half pay cause if that's case I actually do not owe you any overpayment and if it turns out it is a mistake and they insist on taking it ask to pay so much a month taking into consideration your on half pay and then speak to your mortgage advisor and other people you have bills with electric gas all essential bills and ask them for print outs and letters
Last edited by FluppyPuffy on Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Made exceprt from another post into a quotation, as well as making paragraphs clearer for easier reading.
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby felinefine » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:51 am

Thanks Robbiecramp

Sorry I have been quiet, its been pretty annoying. I haven't had one proper meeting with my Manager only brief ones I have instigated. I have my desk and ergonomic chair but there wasn't room in the bank of usual desks so I was put out on the walk way (it open plan) had funny comments and one other manager said to me 'I don't think ***** ( My manager) would like me playing with his toys....URGH! I was trying to adjust the split key board etc. I was disgusted by there attitude . I'm complained.
Other than the sticks for furniture nothings been done from the assessment or any thing else being arranged. I'm so cross, the salary mixed up not mentioned, the parking problem everthing

x
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Re: Sickness review meeting/pay troubles...

Postby jaxwells » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:43 pm

My heart goes out to you :( I know how stressful this is. I have been off since September and am due to return in march or go onto half pay, which I could not possibly live on. I'm so worried I lie awake at night. I know I wont be able to go back as my pain is so much worse and I cant tolerate the pregabilin, my doctor signs me off monthly. I don't know what I can apply for if I'm still getting half pay, the dwp are not the most helpful of people :cry:
I wish you the very best of luck and hope it is sorted out in your favour xx
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