Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

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Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby lolo73 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:53 pm

Went for my tribunal last week. When the clerk of the court told me the name of the Dr who was sitting on the panel I immediately told him I knew the Dr from my past employment. She is the wife of a consultant I used to work for, she used to pop in and get me to do blood tests and the likes for her. When I went into the room she denied she knew me, even though she admitted she was the wife of the consultant I worked for. Although I was less than happy I didn't want to make a fuss, so I went along with it.

She crucified me, the whole time referring to my children and trying to make out I was a bad mum for not being able to do things for them. Also she used my past job against me, deliberately asking me stuff far more complex than the average person would be asked. I explained that my medication was up to the rheumatology consultant, I didn't prescribe it myself but she kept questioning me about it. She kept trying to get me to speculate about things that hadn't yet arisen. Like if my kids are ill at school, how would I deal with having to collect them. I said I could get help from family or friends but she kept trying to make me out to be either a liar or a bad mother. I really feel I was treated unfairly, I have been through the same process previously and I was treated with far more respect the last time.

Do I try and appeal to the higher level? or do I just reapply? which was what was what the chair women told me to do, because they admitted I was worse now than I was previously. I will need to wait 12 weeks I guess before I can reapply, is this right? I am totally confused to what I should do. :-?
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby Garyl » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:03 pm

as she knew you , she should not been on the panal in my eyes i would seek legal advice and tel dwp you are doing so
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby shithappens » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Absolutely agree with previous post, that shouldn't be allowed, she Lied and said she didn't know you then threw her weight around !!!! Totall disgusting !!!!!!! Poor you x x Don't give up inform them hun x x
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby Juliereddragon » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:43 pm

Hi there

I have just been to an ESA appeals Tribunal in December. There was a judge on the panel, and also a Doctor. I was appealing to be put into the support group, and not the WRAG group.

The Doctor was the most, rude, arrogant, dismissive, nasty person that I have ever met. He treated me like a criminal. He tried to put words into my mouth, and scoffed and smirked at my answers, finding faults with all of my replies, talking down to me in jargon and using legal terms which I had no understanding of. I took a representative along with me, who was even more shell shocked than me, when we left the room. He said he had never come across such a bad hearing before. I was almost suicidal on leaving, and if it wasn't for the support of my family, I don't think I could have coped.

My appeal was turned down, and I am in the process of obtaining a statement of reasons, for their refusal. The day after the Tribunal, despair was replaced with extreme anger. I was furious with the way I had been treated, so I decided to write a letter of complaint. I could not bear anyone else to go through what that Doctor put me through, and even though nothing will probably come of my complaint, I felt I had to speak out, if only in support of others going through the same thing.

There is absoloutely no excuse, for any Doctor who sits on these Tribunals, to treat people in this way, but unfortunately, it is common place now, in order for claims to be dismissed, and for ATOS to meet it's targets. I am not going to give up though, and will fight on. I will not be re-applying for ESA and the WRAG group, as I should be in the support group. So the fight continues. :crazy:
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby Hellyn » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:08 pm

So sorry to read your post.
This is a case of conflict of interest and should of declared herself unavailable due to prior knowledge of you. This would of been the honourable and proper thing to do within a court setting.
I think perjury is the word to be used in any form or complaint you use. She has personal knowledge of you and used it.
Full guns on this one I think.
Get yourself some damn good legal advice, totally unprofessional on her part and totally unacceptable.

You stated you knew her and the case should of been stopped and rescheduled with people who had no prior knowledge of you, except for the paper based evidence not personal contact information.

https://www.gov.uk/complain-judge-magis ... al-coroner
good luck.
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby whoami » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:12 am

I would be calling someone and presenting a complaint. This person obviously lied if she knew you. The whole hearing should be dismissed. Get in touch with a lawyer or could you call the district attorneys office ( I am from Canada it could be called something else)

There will be records at your former employers office that you did work for her. Don't let them know if you are going to complain.

Good luck, keep us informed and call a lawyer.
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby SukiTills » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:43 am

I would definitely complain but you might find it easier to just reapply. I know it goes against the grain and am sure you can still carry on complaining about her being there but for your own health and well-being just reapply. I lost my 1st ESA tribunal and reapplied immediately. You need a letter from your GP to say your condition has deteriorated significantly since the date of the last medical and decision.

Then this time round plan ahead: this is what i did - I got a referral for every single condition I had and requested treatment and investigations and physio etc etc As time went on and no medical apt came through I simply cancelled some and then got my GP to re-refer me - the aim of the game is to have ongoing treatments and referrals awaiting apts when you have your medical because they can't say you are fit for full time work if you have something wrong that has yet to be treated. Keep ALL referral and apt letters and reports and take with you to the medical. Then also get a letter from your GP to say that ESA regulations 29, 35 or both apply to you. There are standard letters and explanations online free to print off.

These basically mean that for reg 29 - being found fit for full time work will MORE LIKELY THAN NOT result in a deterioration of your (or someone else's) health and / or safety. Reg 35 means the same but applies to being found to have limited capability for work (the WRAG group). Be sure to explain to your GP that he / she can say this even if they believe a deterioration in your health is more likely than not. Also any deterioration would mean they apply to you, including mental health and / or that as well as the safety of anyone else. Your GP is unlikely to know about these regulations or have a good understanding of what ESA is or the levels of it or what they mean or about what being forced to sign on for JSA would mean etc so explain - make a triple apt so you have time.

Then, when you get your medical apt through the post - ring and DEMAND that your medical is recorded. They will ask you why but you don;t have to give a reason and it is your RIGHT to have it recorded. They will more than likely cancel that apt and send a new one. Remember you are allowed to cancel one apt so make sure you can go to that one and have support in there. Remember to read up on all the things you need to know about how you should travel and what their questions really mean!

However I have now been to my own un-recorded medical, then my 2nd claim's recorded medical and as support for someone else's recorded medical and read about countless others' and I can say with some certainty here that if you do all this AND have it recorded it will be a totally different experience and you are far more likely to get into the correct group first time. The two recorded medicals I attended lasted well over an hour rather than the usual 15 - 20 minutes. Most of the trick questions like what are your hobbies and do you watch tv and have pets etc were not asked. Everything was typed up in depth and they are far more pleasant and understanding.

Both myself and the other person I went with both got straight into support group. You also get a copy of the disc for your own records. Make sure you give the examiner all of your letters and apts etc ONE BY ONE only after the machine has been switched on and the medical has begun - thereby forcing them to read every single piece one by one. This really seems to work. Good luck.
Last edited by FluppyPuffy on Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split large paragraph into several smaller ones for easier reading.
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby SukiTills » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:49 am

another tip - not sure how important this was but seemed to help. You need to stress your unreliability in the workplace but how to prove this? So - make a record of every appointment or meeting or anything that is prearranged on a separate calendar and mark each one to say whether you attended or not. Also do this with any medical apt letters. Also you can ask your GP receptionist for a printout of every appointment you have had for the last year or so which should also state whether you attended or not. I was shocked to find that I only attended a third of my appointments first time. This was great evidence to demonstrate how your condition(s) affects your ability to keep to a timetable etc. I didn't do the calendar thing as only thought of this a week before my medical but the doctors printout seemed to work fine.
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby whoami » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:27 am

I don't know about claims in the Uk but when I applied for disability...

I got copies of every Dr. report, every xray, blood test, every physio appointment planning treatment, every visit to the pain clinic, every evaluation for work ability, as well as reports on my ability to function at home. I got the psycologists report ( that one was hard because I was going to share the info. Everything I could, I made copies of and put them into a binder, one for every person at my hearing.

I was told afterwards that the work hubby and I did really helped them decide on my 100% full disability. The info was right there for them to see.

It is the "facts" on paper that count
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Re: Lost ESA appeal but was it biased?

Postby zappa20 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:35 am

As long as 6 months have passed since you were first told you'd failed your ESA assessment, you can start a new claim for ESA, if you've enough NI conts if on ESA CB or are eligible for ESA IB if not. This would at least give you some form of payment meantime. No payments are made for or while appealing to the Upper Tribunal on an error of law. So

As far as I'm aware the Tribunal should have been adjourned for another day with a different panel. . So not sure why this was allowed to happen. You may also be asked to explain why you didn't insist on the fact you knew her when she denied it.

You only have a limited time of a month to make a request for this decison to be re looked at, so best advce is to contact CAB or a Welfare adviror ASAP, explain what's happened and ask for their help, in writing out your case. The woman's question on what you'd do if your children were ill and needed picked up at school wasn't vindictive as such, and would be a farily normal question to ask at a Tribunal depending on how a person has described their limitations. Sometimes appeals or strike outs are too complicated or time consuming for CAB's resources to take on, but hopefully they should be able to tackle this situation as you've described it , as it seems quite straightforward. Also ask them if your situation is ok to start a new claim now.

If you're successful they will order a fresh Tribuanl is held to look at the eveidnece you presented.
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