Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

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Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby paulfoel » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:12 am

Wife turned down for PIP last week. Turned down for ESA this week. Not a great couple of weeks.... :-(
PIP they did by letter, ESA by phone for some reason.

Both times she got rejected on the distance she can walk. It seems to be whatever you say to them they make it up and put what they want anyway? We're planning to appeal - is this worth it? Whats the process?

Shes been getting ESA but they've told her now it stops immediately. Her pay runs out from work completely at the end of June. She'll still be officially employed but with zero pay - although in next few months its likely they'll terminate.

Person on the phone mentioned JSA but surely she can't get that if shes still go a job - albeit unpaid. Or do they really expect her to go on with ZERO income?

Means tested will probably mean she gets nothing because I do work - but dont earn enough without at least some money coming in. That £72 a week ESA meant we just about afforded to pay the bills.
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby TheHud » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:36 am

paulfoel wrote:Wife turned down for PIP last week. Turned down for ESA this week. Not a great couple of weeks.... :-(
PIP they did by letter, ESA by phone for some reason.

Both times she got rejected on the distance she can walk. It seems to be whatever you say to them they make it up and put what they want anyway? We're planning to appeal - is this worth it? Whats the process?

Shes been getting ESA but they've told her now it stops immediately. Her pay runs out from work completely at the end of June. She'll still be officially employed but with zero pay - although in next few months its likely they'll terminate.

Person on the phone mentioned JSA but surely she can't get that if shes still go a job - albeit unpaid. Or do they really expect her to go on with ZERO income?

Means tested will probably mean she gets nothing because I do work - but dont earn enough without at least some money coming in. That £72 a week ESA meant we just about afforded to pay the bills.


Sorry to hear this.

Whatever you decide to do get on it fast. Guidance in this link.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employ ... iderations
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby Tessa2373 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:27 pm

You must seek help from CAB on how to word the appeal they will help you. I'm so sorry to hear this. I hope things improve for you and your wife xx the DWP are out to do nothing but screw over the people who need help and make disabled people beg for everything. It's disgusting. Really feel for you both x
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby paulfoel » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:49 pm

TheHud wrote:
paulfoel wrote:Wife turned down for PIP last week. Turned down for ESA this week. Not a great couple of weeks.... :-(
PIP they did by letter, ESA by phone for some reason.

Both times she got rejected on the distance she can walk. It seems to be whatever you say to them they make it up and put what they want anyway? We're planning to appeal - is this worth it? Whats the process?

Shes been getting ESA but they've told her now it stops immediately. Her pay runs out from work completely at the end of June. She'll still be officially employed but with zero pay - although in next few months its likely they'll terminate.

Person on the phone mentioned JSA but surely she can't get that if shes still go a job - albeit unpaid. Or do they really expect her to go on with ZERO income?

Means tested will probably mean she gets nothing because I do work - but dont earn enough without at least some money coming in. That £72 a week ESA meant we just about afforded to pay the bills.


Sorry to hear this.

Whatever you decide to do get on it fast. Guidance in this link.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employ ... iderations


Thanks. Mandatory reconsideration eh? Bet that means they just say no again.
Better get this in motion then.

I see at least if they say no and you appeal again then they restart your ESA.
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby paulfoel » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:57 pm

TheHud wrote:
paulfoel wrote:Wife turned down for PIP last week. Turned down for ESA this week. Not a great couple of weeks.... :-(
PIP they did by letter, ESA by phone for some reason.

Both times she got rejected on the distance she can walk. It seems to be whatever you say to them they make it up and put what they want anyway? We're planning to appeal - is this worth it? Whats the process?

Shes been getting ESA but they've told her now it stops immediately. Her pay runs out from work completely at the end of June. She'll still be officially employed but with zero pay - although in next few months its likely they'll terminate.

Person on the phone mentioned JSA but surely she can't get that if shes still go a job - albeit unpaid. Or do they really expect her to go on with ZERO income?

Means tested will probably mean she gets nothing because I do work - but dont earn enough without at least some money coming in. That £72 a week ESA meant we just about afforded to pay the bills.


Sorry to hear this.

Whatever you decide to do get on it fast. Guidance in this link.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employ ... iderations


£20 to join up on that site. Lets you create an account, find what you want then they want £20. Not sure I agree with this....... :-(
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby TheHud » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:11 pm

paulfoel wrote:
TheHud wrote:
paulfoel wrote:Wife turned down for PIP last week. Turned down for ESA this week. Not a great couple of weeks.... :-(
PIP they did by letter, ESA by phone for some reason.

Both times she got rejected on the distance she can walk. It seems to be whatever you say to them they make it up and put what they want anyway? We're planning to appeal - is this worth it? Whats the process?

Shes been getting ESA but they've told her now it stops immediately. Her pay runs out from work completely at the end of June. She'll still be officially employed but with zero pay - although in next few months its likely they'll terminate.

Person on the phone mentioned JSA but surely she can't get that if shes still go a job - albeit unpaid. Or do they really expect her to go on with ZERO income?

Means tested will probably mean she gets nothing because I do work - but dont earn enough without at least some money coming in. That £72 a week ESA meant we just about afforded to pay the bills.


Sorry to hear this.

Whatever you decide to do get on it fast. Guidance in this link.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employ ... iderations


£20 to join up on that site. Lets you create an account, find what you want then they want £20. Not sure I agree with this....... :-(


I have not paid for the guides, use other links for that, but its a good place to get info. I may pay for the guides depending on how 'difficult' DWP and the new assessor company get. Based on your turn down, which is with the new lot in control, I suspect they have made it even tighter than ATOS. So I may need help.

How far did you get with your wife's claim, did she go for a medical and did you use any guides to help you fill in all the forms?

For the initial claim which I sent in about 5 weeks ago now,( waiting for the inevitable medical assessment appointment) I used a guide on here. http://www.ukfibromyalgia.com/support/f ... g-esa.html

Still not found the others though.

Good luck, reconsiderations and appeals had been working along the lines of 44% passed in favour of claimant. Its a new company now so....

Looking at this you will need the decisions and forms etc ready when you call http://www.solfed.org.uk/?q=unwaged-wor ... assessment
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby Cjalex » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:35 pm

Hi I was turned down for esa I done an appeal and it went to court I didn't get invited and I won it back x so Def worth appealing I'm going to court Monday for pip so fingers crossed for that xx
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby paulfoel » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:24 pm

TheHud wrote:I have not paid for the guides, use other links for that, but its a good place to get info. I may pay for the guides depending on how 'difficult' DWP and the new assessor company get. Based on your turn down, which is with the new lot in control, I suspect they have made it even tighter than ATOS. So I may need help.

How far did you get with your wife's claim, did she go for a medical and did you use any guides to help you fill in all the forms?

For the initial claim which I sent in about 5 weeks ago now,( waiting for the inevitable medical assessment appointment) I used a guide on here. http://www.ukfibromyalgia.com/support/f ... g-esa.html

Still not found the others though.

Good luck, reconsiderations and appeals had been working along the lines of 44% passed in favour of claimant. Its a new company now so....

Looking at this you will need the decisions and forms etc ready when you call http://www.solfed.org.uk/?q=unwaged-wor ... assessment


Guy came to house for PIP and he just basically answered same questions as on form.
ESA she went to DWP for medical.

Yes I used a few quides to fill it in initially.

But like I said to be honest, what she put on the form and what she said was completely different to how they scored it. They just put what they want to.

Get the impression a lot get turned down straight off. Its an easy win for them. Turn everyone down and they know that a high percentage wont bother to appeal - so thats a large % sorted straight away.

Surrprised its only 44% on appeal....
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby TheHud » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:38 pm

Its beyond me why they bother with failing people who have genuine needs and the medical evidence to back it up. There has been significant discussion about why fail so many, based on a report about the failings of assessment et. The report outcomes have mostly been ignored by the gov apart from appointing another company to make it harder. The report stated the wasted public money due to the number of appeals, so they put in reconsideration. Its a sort of rationing process, as you say Paul, many will not follow it through to appeal because they don't have the support or energy or possibly mental state to do so. Its not good and the report highlighted this, it got ignored along with other stuff.

There are letters and forms for GPs to guid them to complete an ATOS medical enquiry. They are the most patronising disgrace, they order a GP to only state what has been proven even so far as to say they must have seen someone hobble and fall over before they can say they have dificulty walking. All the way through, they state, we do not want your opinion only facts that are proven.

GPs, specialists, consultants can't say anything in their professional opinion unless they have an xray, mri to back it up.
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby *Lisa* » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:00 pm

:shock: Thats both you'll be fighting! :yikes: good luck on that one! :pull-hair:

Without knowing what you wrote on the walking questions its very hard to help (maybe PM me) Sometimes its the context or the words used that fail you. It can be any doctors reports also so request any reports given in.

Pick out everything they turned you down on and disagree with giving the evidence and with more explanations and examples.

On the PIP maybe a few people that help care for your wife (friends/family & yourself) can do an in depth letter on how you care for her/what her needs are you assist and support with.

Go through any medical reports just in case some thing has been missed out to send in.

Dont forget you can also mention the medications she is on and how they impact her day (any side effects)

Its like going through everything over again to see if you missed anything that may help and anything more you can submit

The problem with fibro is there is no *evidence* no one test to confirm how much pain were in which significantly impacts the daily life.

You can tho pay for a physio or chiropractor or Osteopath to do an assessment / give some treatment and get them to write out a report (more evidence) they can see how much the fibro is restricting ones mobility.

:goodluck1:
As a Public Moderator & Admin of this forum my opinions/views expressed are personal and are no more valid than those of other members and not necessarily those of UKFibromyalgia...Lisa
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby TheHud » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:20 pm

I have just been reading through the upper tribunal case studies. I think I know why everyone fails the walking criteria even if they can't walk. The assumption is based on could you reasonably work if a wheelchair was provided.

So answering cannot walk 5 metes let alone 50 will score nil pois! They assume if you can't walk you can use a wheelchair and should probably have one. Even if you don't they assume that the place of work you start at could have one, possibly sorted out through jobcentre. So there you go, the emphasis on that question should not be about how you can't walk far/at all, but can your hands, arms and shoulders operate a wheelchair.

Also upper tribunal will not challenge the definition used by the lower tribunals when describing/interpreting the now legal precedent of 'reasonably, reliably, repeatedly' This could be once, or 50 times so there is no use challenging on repeatedly.

If I come across anything else will post can only do this in 5 minute spurts just having a burn lol
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby UnderSiege » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:04 am

Hi TheHud.

This is so much bs and the government are not doing their job. The expectations are unreal.

Now, my fibro and osteoarthritis (if it is indeed OA, it was misdiagnosed for years and my mother and her friend with really bad RA think it's more than that) is mostly fairly mild compared to most but still, every few weeks or one or two periods a month on average I flare up and am in so much pain and my movement so limited that tortoises could move around faster and with more agility than me...

So I can walk unaided most of the time but nothing like as far or fast as I could only 8 months ago (I had a massive all round health crash last Autumn) but I'm thinking that if things got worse as they will in enough time and if I needed a pair of sticks, walking frame or even a wheelchair there's no way I could cope.

Here's an example: from my bedroom to the street through my mothers over-hoarded house and garden... down a twisty, crowded flight of steps, through overcrowded hall (clear space to walk through only a foot wide) and overcrowded kitchen (doorway obstructed by flanking freezers, a foot clearance) into garden where I have choice of going the long way round down the garden and up a long mud slope or 13 broken and crumbling steps, through gate (limited width clearance again for 20 yards) and onto a long, uneven gravel drive. Good luck getting a wheelchair through that or even puttering along with a frame. No, I don't have a choice in this, my mother is one of the worst hoarders I or mental health services have ever known (they've been to the house and it is very likely to end in accident, disaster or severe health implications sooner or later) but mother won't change no matter how much it drives me nuts... not even if my welfare was at stake, she just can't, she has issues that are awful herself re an abusive father and terrible childhood.

Just yesterday I had a flare up and struggled so much to take a carrier bag of litter to the bin I gave up for the rest of the day (the mess and hoarding don't help with keeping my spirits up) I've actually had to move around sliding my shoulder along one wall to hold me up. I have to wonder, if I got worse and had to defend my position to tribunals or ATOS or whoever was in a position to force me into work or stop my limited benefits (only ESA) would they help my situation by giving me a house/flat/alternative accommodation so I could live in conditions more conducive to me getting by better? Most likely not... but I'm sure the Mediterranean boat ppl will be well catered for when they turn up... as usual

This government is failing us... me, those like me and those many who are worse off than me. Like I said, I'm only just holding my own now but I exist just waiting for the hammer to fall...

Have a good one. We have to at least try to don't we?
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby TheHud » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:37 am

It's all we have, Hope and to keep trying to find a way to keep going.

Did you notice the part about wheelchair at work, you are correct in assuming that they don't give a flying about your home conditions.

In your case there must be something someone can do. Is there nothing your GP can refer you too or even the jobcentre lot.

Have you applied for PIP? Mind you if there is no one looking after you and giving you help, not sure how you could fill in much about getting help. Worth a try though because then you may be able to get on the housing list or even get an intervention to get you out.
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby paulfoel » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:02 pm

TheHud wrote:I have just been reading through the upper tribunal case studies. I think I know why everyone fails the walking criteria even if they can't walk. The assumption is based on could you reasonably work if a wheelchair was provided.

So answering cannot walk 5 metes let alone 50 will score nil pois! They assume if you can't walk you can use a wheelchair and should probably have one. Even if you don't they assume that the place of work you start at could have one, possibly sorted out through jobcentre. So there you go, the emphasis on that question should not be about how you can't walk far/at all, but can your hands, arms and shoulders operate a wheelchair.

Also upper tribunal will not challenge the definition used by the lower tribunals when describing/interpreting the now legal precedent of 'reasonably, reliably, repeatedly' This could be once, or 50 times so there is no use challenging on repeatedly.

If I come across anything else will post can only do this in 5 minute spurts just having a burn lol


Yes thats what they've said. They said you can go to work and use a wheelchair or use crutches.
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Re: Turned down PIP+ESA - pay runs out - what now?

Postby paulfoel » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:06 pm

OK so wife has phoned both PIP and ESA and they've said ok you need to put it in writing. Is this normally what happens?

I just assumed you'd phone them and they'd look at the same report and get someone else to deal with and only then did it go to appeal.BUT they seem to be saying that we need to appeal in writing giving reasons etc.

First time around wife just answered the questions truthfully but they didnt believe her. Shes got consultant reports but as someone said, nothing can be proven, can it?

So whats best approach? Do we need to do a detailed letter and include medical reports?

Havent even had in writing from ESA yet just a phone call. And the PIP rejection is just a standard letter.
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