Natural Treatments?

All your fibromyalgia experiences, questions and answers.

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Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Sun May 04, 2014 1:33 pm

Easylifer wrote:Thank you all for your replies, I have a lot of reading to do, and note taking as I read stuff then don't remember what I've read :roll:



its frustrating, but you dont have to read as much as you think and i can always point you in the right direction and the info you need.

you still have the ability to retain information..

i am still reading and understanding but sometimes i have to read trhe same paragraph 10 times yet fly through the next page..

dont be put off. just slower not stupid!

:)
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
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Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby denys » Sun May 04, 2014 10:22 pm

We always advice any members who are thinking of taking supplements of any kind to check with a medical professional such as GP, practice nurse or pharmacists as they can check for any interaction or warning. Much better than taking advice from the internet in my opinion
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Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Mon May 05, 2014 12:17 am

denys wrote:We always advice any members who are thinking of taking supplements of any kind to check with a medical professional such as GP, practice nurse or pharmacists as they can check for any interaction or warning. Much better than taking advice from the internet in my opinion


100%

i apologise if i am being misleading.. my stance is that natural remedies are a no go. and bad..

i was trying to be neutral i suppose..

a lot of people with FM, fortuantley not myself. believe they know or actually do know more about FM than there doctor.

This is obviously going to make some people vulnerable to pseudo scientific remedies or what have you

I never TELL people what to do or think, i encourage critical thinking. If you ask me about alternative therapies, my answer is you would not go and see a heroin dealer for pain killers because your neighbours best friends dogs mate says the gear is good?

On the subject of 'Alternative/psuedoscientific remedies or treatments, i urge anyone considering anything to have a look at this site..

in the list of topics are a wealth of information on the harms in a range of subject inclusing a large medical section.

http://whatstheharm.net/whatisthis.html

"This site is designed to make a point about the danger of not thinking critically. Namely that you can easily be injured or killed by neglecting this important skill. We have collected the stories of over 670,000 people who have been injured or killed as a result of someone not thinking critically.

We do this not to make light of their plight. Quite the opposite. We want to honor their memory and learn from their stories.

We also wish to call attention to the types of misinformation which have caused this sort of harm. On the topics page you will see a number of popular topics that that are being promoted via misinformation. Many of them have no basis in truth at all. A few are based in reality, but veer off into troublesome areas. We all need to think more critically about these topics, and take great care when we encounter them.

Many proponents of these things will claim they are harmless. We aim to show that they are decidedly not.

Please check out the list of topics and read what interests you."


I am sorry if i upset or offend anyone with this crack but i have a lot of history in the area and have seen people reject REAL medicine with fake medicine, for want of a better word and had to argue science with anecdotal evidence..

I 'studied' homepathy, acupressure, supplements and grewq up in a health food store.. all evidence about health benefits came from the comany sellling the product..

research does not back up the many claims..

anyhow i hope this information is useful and remember, no matter what, doctors orders.. if you dont like the doctors orders, change doctor, if they all say the same.. change your mind!
Last edited by johnashu on Mon May 05, 2014 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
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Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Mon May 05, 2014 12:26 am

denys wrote:We always advice any members who are thinking of taking supplements of any kind to check with a medical professional such as GP, practice nurse or pharmacists as they can check for any interaction or warning. Much better than taking advice from the internet in my opinion


I am so glad that this is the attitude of the mods here!!
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
johnashu
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Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby denys » Mon May 05, 2014 12:01 pm

Thank you for the link Johnashu, the Internet can be a dangerous place especially for people suffering chronic conditions who are desperately looking for something to help.

I think I can speak for the rest of the Mods team when I say one of our greatest bug bears is seeing people with limited resources financially being offered hope from others who make outrageous claims to be able to 'cure' us if we are willing to hand over all our money.

There is also the added worry that some of these products could do harm and that is why we give the advice we do, BUT that said there are some natural, homoeopathic, alternative medicines that can and do give some relief. Its sorting out the good from the bad and what can and cant be taken in combination with traditional medications that causes the most problems.

If you can give pointers in the right direction that others can then take the information and check it out with their own medical professionals then that can only be a good thing. Just dont want members believing implicitly with everything they read on here or other sites :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Mon May 05, 2014 6:04 pm

denys wrote:Thank you for the link Johnashu, the Internet can be a dangerous place especially for people suffering chronic conditions who are desperately looking for something to help.

I think I can speak for the rest of the Mods team when I say one of our greatest bug bears is seeing people with limited resources financially being offered hope from others who make outrageous claims to be able to 'cure' us if we are willing to hand over all our money.

There is also the added worry that some of these products could do harm and that is why we give the advice we do, BUT that said there are some natural, homoeopathic, alternative medicines that can and do give some relief. Its sorting out the good from the bad and what can and cant be taken in combination with traditional medications that causes the most problems.

If you can give pointers in the right direction that others can then take the information and check it out with their own medical professionals then that can only be a good thing. Just dont want members believing implicitly with everything they read on here or other sites :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


homeopathy, which is based on prescientific vitalism and sympathetic magic and, as a result, postulates that “like cures like” and that diluting (and succussing) a remedy to the point where not even a single molecule is likely to remain unless it’s a contaminant, is one of the most blatant forms of quackery there is.

The Grouping of ALL things not obtained from a pharmacist as the same thing is a problem and discussing each individual area is a good thing as a lot o people dont understand what each 'alternative' thing is or even what weight, if any they hold in the scientific community..

here is a lighthearted easy summary of a few popular alternative things

http://www.skeptic.com/downloads/Altern ... t_Hall.pdf

And it is also worth remembering that there really is no such thing as "alternative" medicine; if it's medicine, it's medicine. 'Alternative medicine' is a deceptive term that tries to create the illusion that a discredited or untested treatment is truly an alternative to an established treatment in scientific medicine. By adding 'complementary medicine' to the repertoire of misleading terms, the purveyors of quackery have improved on the illusion that their remedies somehow enhance or improve the effects of science-based medical treatments.

Many people who avoid science-based medical professionals in favor of naturopaths, homeopaths, and the like do so because they believe it is safe. In "Adverse events associated with the use of complementary and alternative medicine in children" Lim et al. report 39 adverse events associated with CAM use over a two-year period, including four reported deaths. And a also disabilities and things that we have simple cures for or at least established cures..


ANYHow,

Saying all that, things like massage, hydrotherapy, mediation, oils, calming exercise, yoga, are all good things and beneficial, and documented scientiically as safe and used successfully for FM and other things (more or less, always check lol!!)

BUT

often you will get the problem of having say hydrotherapy,massage and yoga, grouped in with homeopaths, acupuncturists and chiropractors.. the assumption can often lead to all being safe by grouping things together under 'Alternative therapies' or what have you! i hope this does not sound like i am trying to be nasty but you said " that said there are some natural, homoeopathic, alternative medicines that can and do give some relief. " and this is the sort of thing i am talking about.. despite homeopathic remedies being nothing more than the equivalent of holy water, having 1 molecule of the original substance, at best, (the dude came up with homepathy before we knew about molecules_) then because you grouped it together with 'alternative medicines', with 'medicine' giving the alternative part a bit of kudos to the reader..

if someone scan reads and picks up key words, they will most likely be homeopathic and medicine, this can lead to obvious conclusions.. this can not necessarily make anyone do anything, but it may change their thinking and attitude towards thinking about things..!

i 100% do not think or believe you consciously mean to convey such messages.. thanks for engaging and listening and giving me something to do! :-D :lol: :-P :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :flowers: :flowers: :hugs: :hugs:

sorry my head is a little mashed now lol..

I hope that makes sense and i hope i have not come across as if i know it all etc.. please question and think and explore anything you dont understand..

i shall leave you with a list of sites which you may find interesting on various subjects similar to what we have discussed..and i am always happy to discuss anything, not just homeopathy for example :)

Quack down http://www.quackdown.info/

Quack Watch http://www.quackwatch.org/

Dictionary (wiki stylee) http://skepdic.com/

Society for Science Based Medicine (possibly sticky??) http://www.sfsbm.org/

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ano ... hy-report/

Skeptics blog (if you just wanna have a read about general stuff) http://www.skepticblog.org/
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
johnashu
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Posts: 77
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Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby denys » Tue May 06, 2014 5:43 pm

Johnashu, you put up an awful lot of links in your posts, there are things out there that can help and not everything is 'quackery' as a scientist myself I know there are things that just cannot be explained by science of any kind

One example is the bumble bee, its design and weight, small wings etc. all lead to physicist's belief that it should never get off the ground, therefore taking everything from a scientific point of view does not work. Man must keep an open mind even to things that dont seem possible.

People with fibro react differently to different things so what will work for one person may not work for the next but that doesnt mean they shouldnt try :nono: :nono: :nono:
Denys

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Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Tue May 06, 2014 6:38 pm

denys wrote:Johnashu, you put up an awful lot of links in your posts, there are things out there that can help and not everything is 'quackery' as a scientist myself I know there are things that just cannot be explained by science of any kind

One example is the bumble bee, its design and weight, small wings etc. all lead to physicist's belief that it should never get off the ground, therefore taking everything from a scientific point of view does not work. Man must keep an open mind even to things that dont seem possible.

People with fibro react differently to different things so what will work for one person may not work for the next but that doesnt mean they shouldnt try :nono: :nono: :nono:


Some things have been "proved" to be nonsense,.. hence quackery..

I keep a massively open mind!

using the bumblebee myth? as a scientist?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bumblebee_argument

apologies, i will refrain from discussion..

stick with music :)
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
johnashu
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Posts: 77
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:11 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Tue May 06, 2014 11:30 pm

denys wrote:Johnashu, you put up an awful lot of links in your posts, there are things out there that can help and not everything is 'quackery' as a scientist myself I know there are things that just cannot be explained by science of any kind

One example is the bumble bee, its design and weight, small wings etc. all lead to physicist's belief that it should never get off the ground, therefore taking everything from a scientific point of view does not work. Man must keep an open mind even to things that dont seem possible.

People with fibro react differently to different things so what will work for one person may not work for the next but that doesnt mean they shouldnt try :nono: :nono: :nono:


i do apologise but i am not sure what part of pseudoscience/alternative things that i may or may not have declared Quackery, that you, as a scientist of whatever, disagree with? and of course why you disagree..

Science does not understand everything but it understands a lot more than how and why a bumblebee flys

you have ignored everything i said and grouped it into this..

"stop posting things i cant be bothereed to read.

im a scientist and you are wrong,."

fantastic logic and nice to be welcomed, understood etc.

thank you for being condescending.. apologies for being so stupid, oh great mind!

if i am wrong about the assumption i am more than wiling to discuss the pros and cons of what it is youisagree with..

i doubt you are a scientist though.

nice try
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
johnashu
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Posts: 77
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:11 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Tue May 06, 2014 11:42 pm

;
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
johnashu
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Posts: 77
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:11 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Re: Natural Treatments?

Postby johnashu » Tue May 06, 2014 11:57 pm

FluppyPuffy wrote:The natural/alternative/complimentary approaches seem to have a similar issue to what the pharmaceutical way of managing FM has.......what may benefit one may do very little for another. And with both approaches, various combos and levels need to be tried to find what does make that difference.



Please explain to me how a combo from a Dr is in anyway similar to a combo from an 'alternative practitioner' for example.

You cannot group the two as the same. they are not the same thing!

vagueness leads to nothingness!

be less vague please
I am a Bi-polatic-Fibromyalgic.. I am Obsessive and Sceptical. I am a right Polymath..

"The only way to be always right, is to change your mind when you are proved wrong. Celebrate your mistakes as knowledge gained"
johnashu
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Posts: 77
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:11 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

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