no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

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no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby tohorizon » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:53 am

I'm looking for alternatives to Amitriptyline as sleep enhancer, something that helps with inability to get into deep sleep (i.e. part of my brain/mind doesn't ever shut down; my specialist calls it "alpha- EEG anomaly", I haven't heard many people using this term). I "cured" the other kind of insomnia, not being able to fall asleep, with yoga, meditation, diet changes, supplements, etc. But with this no Deep Sleep problem the only thing that has truly made a difference is Amitriptyline, which I've taken for 4 years (50mg at 8pm). The Amitriptyline stopped working six months ago, with side-effects getting terribly strong (feeling hungover, depressed). I'm back to a life as cursed zombie :shock:

So far I've tried being off medication, Mirtazapine (even worse side effects than the Amitriptyline) and 5-HTP as alternatives to the Amitriptyline, no bearable changes so far. Any ideas? Has anybody long-term experiences with 5-HTP or Tryptophan?
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby FluppyPuffy » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:11 am

Had you been prescribed the amis for fibromyalgia, as you haven't mentioned anything about having FM :? :? :dunno: :dunno:

One of the things about FM is very poor sleep patterns and quality, which is one of the reasons amis are prescribed. We have very poor, if any, stage 4/REM sleep and we wake up feeling unrefreshed and tired.

An alternative to amis is nortriptyline. It is said to have fewer sided effects than amis, but still works in the same way.
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby denys » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:23 am

Cant add anymore than Flup has already said, your doc should be able to prescribe other alternatives for you
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby ouchisme » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Hi ladies

My mind is a bit :crazy: at the mo, so bare with me. What is the hormone (whatsit) that we have to make our bodies sleep. Think its serotin or something like that. Think they have tablets that are from health foodie places that contain it from a natural source :dunno: Might help if you check on-line with holland and barratt, or same such outlet.
Hope that helps in some small way :goodluck1: with the sleep prob
Had symptoms for 5yrs. Dx February 2011
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby denys » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:49 am

Always check with a health specialist etc. before taking any supplements to ensure they will not cause adverse reactions with the meds you are already taking especially if you are taking antidepressants such as TCA's (Ami's are a TCA)

'Dangerously high levels of serotonin in the brain can cause a potentially life-threatening condition called serotonin syndrome. This rare condition is usually the result of an interaction of two or more drugs that affect brain serotonin levels. Even some over-the-counter supplements, such as St. John’s Wort, can result in serotonin syndrome if mixed with TCAs'

and 5-HTP decarboxylises to seratonin anyway :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: so you dont want to add more with that either
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby tohorizon » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:00 pm

Thanks all :wave: (yes of course this is all part of Fibromyalgia). The 5-htp didn't seem to do anything but Tryptophan works fine for now and my GP agrees to try the Nortriptyline next, if necessary.
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby m2kl » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:18 pm

The natural hormone the brain produces is melatonin and can be prescribed by a doctor or bought.

I was on Nortriptyline as i am intolerant to Amis and it did nothing to aid deep sleep sadly.

You should chat to the doctor as there are many meds that cause sedation and they can even prescribe a short dose of sleeping pills. I have an arrangement with my doctor that she gives me 10 sleeping pills a month(zopiclone) os 2-3x a week, when i need, i can get some deep sleep. Am just adjusting to zopiclone too much so she has suggest trying things like Nytol/Kalms before going on to give Temazepam.

I would love to be able to take Amis as i slept so well on them but i cant and am yet to find a good alternative. I am now on Duloxetine anti d but it doesnt help sleep xx
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby FluppyPuffy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:02 pm

m2kl wrote:The natural hormone the brain produces is melatonin and can be prescribed by a doctor or bought.

I was on Nortriptyline as i am intolerant to Amis and it did nothing to aid deep sleep sadly.

You should chat to the doctor as there are many meds that cause sedation and they can even prescribe a short dose of sleeping pills. I have an arrangement with my doctor that she gives me 10 sleeping pills a month(zopiclone) os 2-3x a week, when i need, i can get some deep sleep. Am just adjusting to zopiclone too much so she has suggest trying things like Nytol/Kalms before going on to give Temazepam.

I would love to be able to take Amis as i slept so well on them but i cant and am yet to find a good alternative. I am now on Duloxetine anti d but it doesnt help sleep xx


What you've posted m2kl shows perfectly how what may be of help to one of us doesn't help another :facepalm: :facepalm: If you try the Nytol/Kalms type of things, I found that they gave me horrific nightmares, esp the herbal ones and other people I know who have used them have had similar experiences. For some they eased off and they helped with sleep, but for me they got worse and worse until I was petrified to go to sleep because of them :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby tohorizon » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:11 am

Thanks for sharing everybody, I find this so helpful! With most 'natural' supplements I had experiences similar to FluppyPuffy, vivid nightmares and hallucinations that just seemed to get worse every night. Absolutely amazing what a few mg of plant substances can do! At the moment I'm totally off work and 'at leisure' to experiment a bit more as I don't have to function, and I'm finding that lower than the recommended doses of natural supplements work better for me.
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby geniejack » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:56 am

I was on 600mg of Pregablin,split in two am and pm.I found this to be really helpful at first with sleeping.I am now on 75mg Dosulepin ,a sedating anti depressant which I take at night,7.30pm,it has been very effective so far but can leave me rather drowsey in the morning ,sometimes.I joke with my hubby saying that I dont sleep ,I am unconscious lol its great to feel that I have had a deep sleep.




April xxx
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby FluppyPuffy » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:02 pm

Glad you've found something that is helping you April :clap: :clap:
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby denys » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:30 pm

I too take dosulepin and pregablin and they do nothing for my sleep just goes to show we are all different, glad its working for you April :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby wild rabbit » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:55 am

i cant take anti depressants due to bipolar affective disorder (last time i took nortriptiline I had severe tachycardia and was high as a kite from the meds and got put in a psych unit for 5 weeks :( ) so not allowed anti d's now. What can I take? My shrink is unhelpful and the ruematologist discharged me without help.
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Re: no Deep Sleep: alternatives to Amitriptyline?

Postby denys » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:18 am

Hi I answered on your other post, really think your doc needs to sort you due to your other problems :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:
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